Does this look right?

[causeway]

View attachment 28422

A boat i'm currently looking at. Would a short strop be needed? Seems like there is going to be friction on the pulpit?

Also, anyone know what type of sails these are, my boat has plain dacron, these look radially stitched? Is that even a thing?

Many thanks

 

[prv]

Not at all unusual. All you need to do is go and flip the foot of the sail inboard over the rail by hand. If you tried to prevent it happening by raising the tack, you'd be cutting a lot of area off the sail.

Pete

 

[Topcat47]

Bi-radial sails Genoas are generally more expensive than conventional sails. This one doesn't look as if it's made of Mylar or any of the high tech sailcloths. Genoas often hang over the guardrails and pulpit like this, it's nothing to worry about.

I can't think where you'd want to fit a short strop anyway. It's got roller reefing and in my experience, for this to work properly, the head of the sail has to be at the top of the forestay.

 

[LadyInBed]

Would a short strop be needed?

Is there 4 or 5 inches at the top of the forestay to allow the sail to be raised?

 

[causeway]

Bi-radial sails Genoas are generally more expensive than conventional sails. This one doesn't look as if it's made of Mylar or any of the high tech sailcloths. Genoas often hang over the guardrails and pulpit like this, it's nothing to worry about.

I can't think where you'd want to fit a short strop anyway. It's got roller reefing and in my experience, for this to work properly, the head of the sail has to be at the top of the forestay.

That is good, it fits with what the current owner told me.

If you tried to prevent it happening by raising the tack, you'd be cutting a lot of area off the sail.

Surely if just raising the sail a little higher, it isn't doing anything to the sail area?

It's got roller reefing and in my experience, for this to work properly, the head of the sail has to be at the top of the forestay.

There are a few inches at the top of my forestay, the RR seems to work ok.

Thanks for the replies. I don't think i'll give it another thought (ok of course i will, i just won't worry about it).

 

[Rossynant]

For such setting of the genoa it was usual to have upper guardrail line lowered at pulpit, as this is where there will be chafe (mine has, that is attachment point at pulpit set lower than on first stanchion). Or pulpit split there to allow sail through - like this https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sISufy7i5hhtSqu0qzZ2kdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Sail lying on guardline like on pic has spoilt shape on quite a bit of area, inefficient. Better to move it higher if possible.
This particular cut of sail makes it better shape when partially rolled.

 

[causeway]

For such setting of the genoa it was usual to have upper guardrail line lowered at pulpit, as this is where there will be chafe (mine has, that is attachment point at pulpit set lower than on first stanchion). Or pulpit split there to allow sail through - like this https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/sISufy7i5hhtSqu0qzZ2kdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
Sail lying on guardline like on pic has spoilt shape on quite a bit of area, inefficient. Better to move it higher if possible.
This particular cut of sail makes it better shape when partially rolled.

Yes, my vega is like this (guard rails low at pulpit). From what i have read it is more efficient to have the sail as close to deck level as possible but in this case it seems like it is detrimental to sail shape.

I haven't bought the boat yet and the sails are not on at the moment. I guess it is something i will have to worry about if i end up buying the boat. I guess that even 4-5 inches would do it.

Even so, as long as it isn't out of the ordinary, i won't let it bother me. Indeed i am glad that at least the sails are decently cut.

 

[Rossynant]

From what i have read it is more efficient to have the sail as close to deck level as possible

Personally I don't believe it.
Lower part of sail works in dirty air, turbulent, disturbed by hull side. Use of long genoa with foot on deck was important with racing measurements, when foretriangle area was measured, not sail - and many "theories" were later devised to explain it's use, including 'endplate theory', 'slot theory' and all such rubbish.
But for a given sail - better drive is obtained higher in clean air, not to mention wind speed is bigger up there.
Made a boat once with mast almost two feet higher - just experimenting - keeping original sails of a class, just raised up all the rig. Left same type boats well astern.
Anyway I'd put some plastic covering on the wire there. This sail looks nicely shaped, indeed.

 

[causeway]

What you are saying seems intuitively right to me. I Think i will raise it higher if possible.

It stands to reason that higher=stronger/better.

I was more worried about chafe than anything so less flapping=better in my eyes.

thanks

 

[prv]

If you tried to prevent it happening by raising the tack, you'd be cutting a lot of area off the sail.

Surely if just raising the sail a little higher, it isn't doing anything to the sail area?

Sorry, yes, I meant if the sail had been made differently in the first place to avoid this. Assuming that the head of it runs to the top of the foil, anyway, which it ought to really.

Pete

 

[causeway]

Sorry, yes, I meant if the sail had been made differently in the first place to avoid this. Assuming that the head of it runs to the top of the foil, anyway, which it ought to really.

Pete

I will be checking this as soon as i can.

 

[dk]

[Qoute]What you are saying seems intuitively right to me. I Think i will raise it higher if possible.

It stands to reason that higher=stronger/better. [Quote\]

Higher doesn't mean stronger/better, it actually means the centre of effort becomes higher off the deck, increasing your heeling moment.
This situation is very common on boats with genoas. Just sheet it in a bit quicker or tack slower, or luff up a tad until it flips over the rail - you don't need to go forward.

 

[DJE]

A boat i'm currently looking at. Would a short strop be needed? Seems like there is going to be friction on the pulpit?

Also, anyone know what type of sails these are, my boat has plain dacron, these look radially stitched? Is that even a thing?

Many thanks

It looks a lot like my tri-radial cruising laminate genoa which is also from Kemps. Try getting the helmsman to tack as slowly as possible to give the crew time to winch the genoa in most of the way before if fills. If he tacks too fast send him forward to skirt the genoa in over the rails while the crew recovers from the winching!

 

[Fantasie 19]

What you are saying seems intuitively right to me. I Think i will raise it higher if possible.

It stands to reason that higher=stronger/better.

I was more worried about chafe than anything so less flapping=better in my eyes.

thanks

On my old boat I always used to hoist the jib as high as it would go, tie it off, and then tension from the bottom... you might get a couple of inches extra height and therefore slightly more clearance....

 

[lustyd]

It looks a lot like my tri-radial cruising laminate genoa which is also from Kemps. Try getting the helmsman to tack as slowly as possible to give the crew time to winch the genoa in most of the way before if fills. If he tacks too fast send him forward to skirt the genoa in over the rails while the crew recovers from the winching!

If the crew are winching they didn't move fast enough. This is nothing to do with the helm but quite often with the crew expecting to have to winch and therefore not focusing on pulling the sheet while it's loose, or even waiting too long to begin pulling. The winch handle is there to finish off and trim, not to pull in the rope.

Sailing solo, of course, is a different matter!

 

[DJE]

If the crew are winching they didn't move fast enough. This is nothing to do with the helm but quite often with the crew expecting to have to winch and therefore not focusing on pulling the sheet while it's loose,

Ok I should have said "...time to pull in the genoa..." But on a boat with a big overlapping genoa there is a lot that the helm can do to reduce the crew's workload when tacking. I can't agree that it is nothing to do with the helm.

 

[haydude]

View attachment 28422

A boat i'm currently looking at. Would a short strop be needed? Seems like there is going to be friction on the pulpit?

Also, anyone know what type of sails these are, my boat has plain dacron, these look radially stitched? Is that even a thing?

Many thanks

I recommend to refresh your sail trimming skills and after you have done that look again at the picture. You would no longer be asking the question.

However here are my hints:

1) Sails perform best with the foot cut closest to the deck
2) Some people have some of their headsails cut higher, but these might be easy to handle low performance cruising jibs, what we see in the picture is a standard Genoa, the radial cuts and white colour gives you a hint that it is a performing cruising Genoa
3) What do you think it would happen with a strop? Think about it ..... yes the top of the sail will hit the end of the track before the halyard can tension the luff. If you even think about doing that and cutting the top of the sail you should not be buying this boat, or any other boat.
4) Clearly the sail in the picture is sheeted for a close reach in light wind, if the yacht were sailing close-hauled or the wind were stronger the sail would be sheeted in further and the Genoa car would go further aft, so that the foot of the sail would fall inside the guard rail.

 

[causeway]

it would be difficult to 'refresh' what I've never had. I'm all new to this.

I thought a big part of this forum was giving advice?

I'm doing my YM at the moment so I guess that is a good start.

 

[haydude]

it would be difficult to 'refresh' what I've never had. I'm all new to this.

I thought a big part of this forum was giving advice?

I'm doing my YM at the moment so I guess that is a good start.

In that case it is best to state that it is a beginner question because common sense dictates that someone hinting at buying a yacht is sufficiently experienced to do so.

However do you mean Yachtmaster training? I understand that a pre-requisite for a YM is experience to boat handling and sail trimming, as well as night navigation.

 

[causeway]

still doing the shore based stuff at the moment. need to work up a lot of miles!

a lot of yachties I know who have huge miles very rarely question sail cut and shape. it's only racers who seem to worry!