Does anyone keep aboat in Croatia, and what is it like?

[DickB]

I am now pretty much decided that my yacht is going to the Med. I think Croatia, but I would be really interested in other folks opinions, pluses and minuses of keeping a boat abroad. I have sailed in Turkey and Greece (chartered) but never kept my own more than a 2 hour drive away... I envisage tinckering withdrawal symptoms but the prospect of actually getting fine weather and decent sailing more than compensates, especially this summer!!!

cheers,

Dick

 

[Tranona]

Keeping a boat out there has become increasingly expensive, and Croatia is more expensive than say Greece or Turkey. This increase is felt more keenly by people like myself who first had a boat out there (in Greece) more than 10 years ago and watched costs double in the last 5 or 6 years (in £sterling terms). However if starting from now you will be assessing it from what is, rather than what was.

Key factors to take into account are where are you going to keep it, who is going to look after it, how are you going to get there, how often are you going (and for how long) and where do you want to cruise. There are many choices of how you manage your boat from keeping on land in a local yard and launching only when you need to full service marina with guardinage and ready to go at any time. Also choices about whether you own the whole boat, join a syndicate or enter into a charter management deal where you get an agreed amount of usage of the boat.

All of these alternatives have their merits and what you choose will depend on your circumstances and what you feel comfortable with. It is clearly very "do-able" as there are thousands of foreign owned boats out there. Greece, and particularly the Ionian is probably the most popular area as it is traditionally cheaper. easy to get to in the season and generally fewer formailties than say Croatia or Turkey (although that, like everything else is changing as you will see from threads on Liveaboard). In Croatia and Turkey you will need cruising logs/permits which are increasingly expensive and can be restrictive, and being outside the EU you need to be aware of potential VAT issues if you take a VAT paid boat there. No problem when you are there, but potentially a problem if you subsequently want to bring it back into the EU - not insurmountable but you need to know the rules.

You might post your interest on the liveaboard forum as not everyone there reads this one. Also worth joining the Cruising Association as they have an active Med forum. Well worth chartering in your chosen area first so that you have an opportunity to see what is available. That is what we did, first in Turkey then in Corfu for two years before taking the plunge.

Hope this helps

 

[prv]

Been to Croatia several times 10+ years ago, and loved it. Like Greece but better-organised and with wind.

Went more recently, and found it expensive.

Pete

 

[haydude]

If you really want to take your boat to the Med you should consider an EU country. Croatia is not in the EU and you may have tax and re-import issues if you keep your boat there more than six months.

Also if one day you will want to sell your boat it will be harder if she is in a non-EU country due to tax issues.

I believe that the best way to have a boat in the Med, if you are resident in the UK, is to charter.,

 

[RichardS]

The big advantage with Croatia, provided you stay north of Split as it's only motorway from Calais to Split, is that it is driveable in one go, particularly if you can share the driving. We load up the estate car with everything we need and go.

Catch the Channel shuttle just after lunchtime, arrive at the boat the following afternoon, unload, have an early dinner at a local restaurant and retire for a good nights sleep. Wake next morning fully refreshed and ready to go!

You could do something similar to Greece or Turkey (and I've done both from the UK) but you really are into endurance territory unless you take several days!

Richard

 

[haydude]

The big advantage with Croatia, provided you stay north of Split as it's only motorway from Calais to Split, is that it is driveable in one go, particularly if you can share the driving. We load up the estate car with everything we need and go.

Catch the Channel shuttle just after lunchtime, arrive at the boat the following afternoon, unload, have an early dinner at a local restaurant and retire for a good nights sleep. Wake next morning fully refreshed and ready to go!

RIght ... so if you take the Friday off and you have to be back to work by Tuesday you get one day sail. Of course if you take one week off instead (that would be 8 days Sat to following Sun) you get five days on the boat (Mon-Fri). And you drive during both weekends.

 

[RichardS]

RIght ... so if you take the Friday off and you have to be back to work by Tuesday you get one day sail. Of course if you take one week off instead (that would be 8 days Sat to following Sun) you get five days on the boat (Mon-Fri). And you drive during both weekends.

A long weekend is obviously a non-starter but we do at least one 8 day trip every year and love it every time.

If you check out some other threads it appears that the choice is (i) keep the boat in the Med and get some guaranteed sailing in great weather or (ii) keep the boat in the UK and possibly get no sailing in foul weather!

To each, his own!

Richard

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The big advantage with Croatia, provided you stay north of Split as it's only motorway from Calais to Split, is that it is driveable in one go, particularly if you can share the driving. We load up the estate car with everything we need and go.

Catch the Channel shuttle just after lunchtime, arrive at the boat the following afternoon, unload, have an early dinner at a local restaurant and retire for a good nights sleep. Wake next morning fully refreshed and ready to go!

You could do something similar to Greece or Turkey (and I've done both from the UK) but you really are into endurance territory unless you take several days!

Richard

Respect! I have just bought a boat in Croatia, before that we chartered and spent many a summer holiday there. From Munich on a good run I can get to Zadar in 6-7 hours - you must be really dedicated to travel for so long.

To answer the OPs question here are some pros and cons ...

Pro:

Weather generally good but up 'till June can be iffy. July, August can be extremely hot, hope you have a well ventilated AWB.
Cruising excellent, islands beautiful.
Once you know where and when all the little markets are, provisioning is cheap and the quality of fruit, veg and fish is excellent.
If you export the boat from the U.K. and sail it to Croatia, you can reclaim your VAT.
As an EU resident you can keep your UK flagged boat there tax free until Croatia joins the EU - then I have no idea what will happen

Cons:

Price - nothing comes for free in Croatia. In August the place is heaving and marina prices are hiked skywards.
There are a fair number of cowboys so watch out - and don't argue with anyone in authority. Once they decide to pull you up on something, it becomes a damage limitation exercise - unless you like a good fight in a foreign non-EU court.
A crew list is a necessity, it contains the names and passport numbers of all people who are allowed on the boat in one calendar year.
It is limited to 2.3 times the number of berths stated in the design documentation (CE, Germania Lloyd..) It can be updated as people arrive but they won't be taken off again until the following year.
If caught with someone on board who is not on the crew list the boat will be impounded and you will face heavy fines to get it back. (Croatian Charter Company Protection Racket)
It's a long way away, makes repairs, maintenance and tinkering practically impossible - find a local boatyard you can trust.

PM if you want more info.

 

[Tranona]

If you export the boat from the U.K. and sail it to Croatia, you can reclaim your VAT.

That is no longer true. While until this year it was possible for an individual to avoid paying VAT on a new boat if the boat left the UK almost immediately it was delivered, now VAT can only be avoided if the supplier (builder or dealer) exports it directly.

With an existing boat you cannot reclaim VAT, and the boat could be liable for VAT if it re-enters the EU. The person who exported the boat can claim exemption, but there is a time limit (which seems flexible) but if it changes hands outside the EU the new owner is liable if he imports it.

 

[Sailfree]

Solent marinas and S coast marine facilities are now sending their staff to Croatia to get educated in how to really rip sailors off with high prices. All Croatians have a PhD in it!!

Been there once, very nice but just like Venice its a rip off for tourists area.

 

[DickB]

Many thanks for the responses...

Many thanks for all the information. My decision has been precipitated by the awfull weather this year. I have been hovering for a number of years and the dynamics are very different with my precious yacht being so far away. On the other hand some guarenteed good weather and beautiful sailing is a great draw. We chartered in Turkey (Fetiye - sorry about the spelling) and really enjoyed a great week there, and many years ago we chartered in the Ionion and also had a great week. (No wind though).

I guess change is always a good thing hence I would like to get our yacht into the Med. I a couple of weeks we are going to travel down to the West Country assuming the weather is OK!! I am not a purist here, and sailing in the rain, howling winds etc holds no fun for me...

My only hesitation with Croatia is that my memories of Yugoslavia frommany years back was that the local population were somewhat less than friendly, compared, say to the Italians or Greeks. Any views on that?

I was amazed by the number of Marinas now built there... ACI seem to have got a lot of them wrapped up, and the prices are slightly less than UK South Coast. Not as cheap as Turkey, but I understand that Turkey is now getting pricier.

Anyway, many thanks again for all your help, it is really appreciated,

cheers,

Dick

 

[Baggywrinkle]

That is no longer true. While until this year it was possible for an individual to avoid paying VAT on a new boat if the boat left the UK almost immediately it was delivered, now VAT can only be avoided if the supplier (builder or dealer) exports it directly.

With an existing boat you cannot reclaim VAT, and the boat could be liable for VAT if it re-enters the EU. The person who exported the boat can claim exemption, but there is a time limit (which seems flexible) but if it changes hands outside the EU the new owner is liable if he imports it.

Can you please point me to the changes .... I assumed this was correct and that the sailaway scheme was still in operation.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vswbmanual/VSWB2000.htm
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000153

 

[RichardS]

We have always found the Croatians to be very friendly and very helpful. Obviously, you reap as you sow, but on the few occasions that we have needed assistance there has never been a shortage of local people pitching in to help.

It is not cheap compared to Turkey but I would gauge that living costs are cheaper than any Euro country, although marina fees are not as cheap as Greece. However, in many Croatian marinas the facilities are excellent.

There is some fairly crazy boat-handing (read entertaining) in Croatia but, more often than not, it turns out to be visitors from Italy. I also love Italians but they are definitely more excitable under pressure than Croatians although the culture is similar.

I don't see how Croatia as a whole could be compared with Venice - that is truly premier league! You can find restaurants in Croatia which are as expensive as any in Venice but you would have to be determined to seek them out.

Richard

 

[RupertW]

Liking Croatia so far

We are well into our first season now in Croatia and have combined sailing time with a lot of DIY work.

Each month we are flying out for a week of glorious weather with some windy days.

Bring out 2 x 20kg each time and come back with 1 empty case inside another so havent had to drive once yet.

Obviously rib and outboard were bought there - we dont mind secondhand and the local sunsail fleets perpetually have pieces of equipment that are just past it for chaterteres but cheap as chips to us.

We even got a brand new mainsail as they'd over ordered a year before and it was gathering dust.

Marina boatyard reliable but expensive. Sunsail guys always up for a few quid midweek for basic work - but I don't expect promptness now.

Vat the only issue when we move it on to Greece or Italy at the end of next season

 

[Sailfree]

I don't see how Croatia as a whole could be compared with Venice - that is truly premier league! You can find restaurants in Croatia which are as expensive as any in Venice but you would have to be determined to seek them out.

Richard

I think we Bl@@dy found them all then.

Dont get me wrong I loved the place but prices were a turnoff.

 

[Iliade]

We have spent the last two summers there, one in a tent with no boat and one in a caravan with only the tender to avoid cabin fever. (SWMBO,MBO...) You'd be amazed how far four can go in a tender when the sun is shining and the sea is flat.

When the the Bora blows, the whole country as far south as Bosnia suffers stupidly strong offshore katabatic winds and flat seas ;-) This can blow for all of August, but you will have some blistering sailing and probably break your mast, or at least lose something of value over the side :0) Go further south when it blows and you will eventually get some peace.

When the Bora doesn't blow the cruising is outstanding, but the coast (actually the whole blooming country) is all karstic limestone, so a repair kit or an overcoat for the dinghy and great care are called for when near the shore. I think I'd have a wooden tender with a 1" thick rubber coating, given the choice.

I can imagine that one would spend a fair bit of time getting the anchor unjammed from the numerous rocks on the bottom. But at least the water is so clear that you'll be able to see the problem before you get wet.

Wear shoes when landing.

Take your tender up the river at Omis.

Look out for the numerous sea urchins. As a revenge, apparently they taste very good.

The people may seem dour at first, but they actually have a very black sense of humour, quite suited to the Brit's once you gain the measure of them - Imagine a Yorkshireman with a suntan: ' You can always tell a Croatian. But you can't tell 'em much...'

There must be about a million small islands, each like jewels on an azure cloth. My command of language is insufficient to describe the beauty of the place. It is also cheaper than most other Mediterranean countries and not occupied by hordes of drunken british louts.

If you want to eat out, avoid the marinas and fancy restaurants on the waterfront. With a modicum of planning (and a car, but bikes would suffice) we ate out very frugally every other day last summer. The spit-roast suckling pigs are something to behold, as are the fresh tuna...

We had planned to trailer our last boat there this summer but we unexpectedly bought something just a little too big to drag, so we may just have to sail her there soon!

Go there and make your own mind up, you can always sail to somewhere else next year!

 

[DickB]

So how did you get your yacht to Croatia, and how long did it take?

Thanks to all for such a great response, I have now negotiated with 'er indoors to move Singapore Sling out there. This begs the question as to how? Clearly it would be great for me (and others) to sail her there but how long should I give it, or do I employ a delivery crew?

Having spent horrible sums of money over the past three years getting her back up to scratch (my yacht that is!!!) I hopefully will not have anything major go wrong, but there are always bits to do...

Do you folk (who keep a yacht in Croatia) employ someone to keep an eye on batteries, lines, and general stuff or what?

Can I say again I reallydo appreciate the feedback, it is invaluable,

cheers,

DIck

 

[RupertW]

Looking after the boat

We haven't found any need for looking after the boat a the Marina keeps an eye on lines etc.

Lots of offers for additional help but we haven't taken up anything but the laundry service after each cruise, and the chandlery guy goes off to fill our gas bottles when needed. I find leaving the boat there very similar to when I lived in London and kept the boat in Plymouth.

Apart from the weather.

 

[Tranona]

Two choices. Delivery crew or road. Not sure you will be able to take the second because of size, so you will need to get quotes. Normal road route is to Slovenia and then sail down. That is the route all the charter boats take, and you may well find it better to start from say Rotterdam to avoid the channel crossing by ferry. My boat was delivered that way from Germany to Corfu. Time is less than a week.

Coming back (from Corfu) my initial plan was professional skipper one crew and me. Budget was around £6k and take about 4 weeks. Would be similar to Croatia, distance and time wise - but probably a bit quicker going south. Again you would have to get quotes, recognising that "extras" such as fuel and marina charges plus any delays can cause the bill to rise rapidly! There is also the wear and tear of over 2000 miles of non stop sailing.

On my trip back, I only got as far as Spain for all sorts of reasons, so trucked the rest of the way. Based on my experience I would use truck if at all possible. Quicker, more predictable and no damage. Also gives the opportuniy to check mast and rigging.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tranona]

Can you please point me to the changes .... I assumed this was correct and that the sailaway scheme was still in operation.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/vswbmanual/VSWB2000.htm
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_CL_000153

My observation was prompted by an announcement of changes last year to take effect this year. I am assuming the changes have now taken place judging from the latest manual. I believe the changes are that the supplier is now responsible for administering the scheme, whereas previously the boat would be supplied zero rated and then the buyer would be responsible for paying VAT if the boat was not exported. Also, I think that the period has been shortened to 2 months.

Big risk for a supplier and seems taking a deposit of the VAT from the buyer would be sensible as they can only zero rate once the boat has been exported.

Not entirely sure I am right about the changes as I am quoting from memory about what happened previously, and can't find any reference on line to the previous notices.