Does any other marina chain have this term in the berth licence?

[Concerto]

Been looking at Boatfolf Terms and Conditions and came across this condition. This is one I had never come across before.

"10.2 The Owner shall maintain the Boat in good, clean and seaworthy condition and ensure that the Boat is able to proceed under its own power at all times. The Boat shall leave the Marina at least twice during the Term. "

Knowing many boats never seem to leave their home berth, how do they check if a boat leaves its berth. Do they check the berths daily?

 

[neilf39]

My marina checks the berths twice a day. Partly security but also log who is away. Not got that as a term though. I guess they are trying to avoid having berths with hulks or pure marina queen's occupying berths actual sailors could use.

 

[NormanS]

Quite difficult to comply with "able to proceed under its own power at all times" literally. Technically, that would prevent most engine maintenance.

 

[EugeneR]

I recall having the clause with Premier in Port Solent, so assume it to be quite widespread.

My understanding is that it prevents the marina from gathering floating wrecks unable to be used as boats.

I doubt they will enforce it during Covid or even check how often you go out. Instead, they can use the clause where needed to get rid of problem boats.

 

[Stemar]

IIRC, Haslar has something similar. Provided it's enforced with a degree of intelligence and compassion, it seems entirely reasonable.

 

[chrishscorp]

I dont blame them, i was in one marina this year walked past 2 boats on the main walkway, one looked a mile from being seaworthy the other one I suspect the staff are running a book on when it will sink, 8 foot lengths of kelp streaming off its hull, the insurers would i am sure refuse a claim on it at which point the marina then has to pick up the tab for clearing it up as we all saw in Brixham earlier this year, inevitably that cost then gets passed onto all of us.

 

[Frogmogman]

As I pointed out in the Swallowing the anchor thread, in the public marinas in Toulon, rule 2 states that any boat that has not left it's berth all year will have it's mooring fees tripled the following year.

https://www.portsradetoulon.com/sites/default/files/article/Fichiers PDF/2021 tarifs amarrage plaisance.pdf

 

[Stork_III]

Been looking at Boatfolf Terms and Conditions and came across this condition. This is one I had never come across before.

"10.2 The Owner shall maintain the Boat in good, clean and seaworthy condition and ensure that the Boat is able to proceed under its own power at all times. The Boat shall leave the Marina at least twice during the Term. "

Knowing many boats never seem to leave their home berth, how do they check if a boat leaves its berth. Do they check the berths daily?

It is in the Shotley/Burnham Yacht Harbour terms. Shotley can log you out as you leave the Lock, BYH can't. Not enforced in my experience. Might be a standard term from a Marina operators association, probably to get round liveaboard/council tax/planning rules.

 

[Concerto]

To be honest, I also checked my MDL terms and conditions and I could not see a similar condition. That is why I asked the question.

We should all remember that a boat is an asset and a liability. The asset value usually decreases over time and the liability of berthing or storage can become a massive on going expense that can only be avoided by selling the asset or moving it somewhere cheaper.

 

[Tranona]

I expect it is recent and as a result of the liveaboard issue being highlighted by covid. Would not be surprised if MDL followed suit. We have a similar issue with marina berths in our club marina where there is an ongoing problem with "berth blockers" as members get older and are reluctant to give up their boat even though they don't use it. There are proposals to monitor boat movement with a tag on each boat, but currently on hold because of the potential for further lockdowns restrictions.

 

[Stemar]

Boats at our club are required to be maintained in a seaworthy state, but it's tough to enforce when some of the worst offenders are people who are now too old to sail, or even maintain their boats, but have given years of good service doing often thankless tasks for the club.

 

[Stork_III]

I expect it is recent and as a result of the liveaboard issue being highlighted by covid. Would not be surprised if MDL followed suit. We have a similar issue with marina berths in our club marina where there is an ongoing problem with "berth blockers" as members get older and are reluctant to give up their boat even though they don't use it. There are proposals to monitor boat movement with a tag on each boat, but currently on hold because of the potential for further lockdowns restrictions.

Not recent at Shotley/BYH, term has been in their berth licence since at least 2002, when I first berthed there.

 

[Sandy]

What a brilliant idea.

Several questions come to mind:

• how far from the marina do you need to go?
• do you need to formally log two voyages with the marina staff?
• what evidence is required if one of the voyages was during the hours of darkness?

 

[westernman]

Been looking at Boatfolf Terms and Conditions and came across this condition. This is one I had never come across before.

"10.2 The Owner shall maintain the Boat in good, clean and seaworthy condition and ensure that the Boat is able to proceed under its own power at all times. The Boat shall leave the Marina at least twice during the Term. "

Knowing many boats never seem to leave their home berth, how do they check if a boat leaves its berth. Do they check the berths daily?

Yes this is common in French contracts. Some times there is a requirement that the boat will not be in the marina for at least x number of days per year.

 

[Yealm]

What a brilliant idea.

Several questions come to mind:

• how far from the marina do you need to go?
• do you need to formally log two voyages with the marina staff?
• what evidence is required if one of the voyages was during the hours of darkness?

Do a screen shot of an AIS app image ?

 

[laika]

I recall having the clause with Premier in Port Solent, so assume it to be quite widespread.

While it’s the type of thing I’d expect in the premier contract I don’t recall it in any of mine. Just checked and I don’t see it in the contract I got this summer (from Brighton but no mention of T&C change when we moved to Gosport).

In other news….so it isn’t just premier that uses the ridiculous phrase “berthing licence”?

 

[Concerto]

While it’s the type of thing I’d expect in the premier contract I don’t recall it in any of mine. Just checked and I don’t see it in the contract I got this summer (from Brighton but no mention of T&C change when we moved to Gosport).

In other news….so it isn’t just premier that uses the ridiculous phrase “berthing licence”?

A berthing licence is the correct term. They allow you to moor to their pontoon and use their facilities in exchange for money. You have no "rights" to moor and do not "own" the berth as they can move you at the drop of a hat.

It is a bit like a lease for a property, but that ensures you have the right to use the property for the duration of the lease provided you continue to pay the agreed fees and maintenance. However at the end of the lease you either leave or arrange a new lease.

So, the real difference is the right to use a property, whereas you do not have the same right to a specific berth. Maybe I am lucky with my berth, but I moor my 32ft Fulmar in a berth that can accomodate a 40ft boat. The reason I am there is it is a difficult berth for a 40ft boat to get in and out of it. If they had limited free berths, they could move me to another berth and there is nothing I could do to stop it as the "berthing licence" covers this.

 

[Sandy]

Do a screen shot of an AIS app image ?

I could have a lot of fun with that, would sir like a circumnavigation of:

• the bay;
• the British Isles; or
• the globe

between the hours of 2200 and 0600?

 

[capnsensible]

Regarding those ageing boats in marinas.

A while ago I was a bit involved with one. The law may have changed but at that time the owner went missing, had no will. Apparently you have to wait seven years before the missing person can be declared dead. So that is one of possibly several circumstances where boats get left unattended. So presumably the operator can't enforce their terms?

 

[Paulfireblade]

As said Shotley have that clause but I consider it preferable to the nearest MDL that IIRC has a limit to nights spent on board per month and as I am retired I could easily exceed that some months