Does any insurer still exclude S of 12N from named storm premiums?

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fliti

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My insurer, Admiral, has ceased to accept the previously widely accepted standard definition of hurricane zone as starting N of 12N. Wherever you are in the Caribbean including Trini and Grenada, they require named storm premia, special layup precautions and will accept only a limited number of yards for summer layup(e.g. Barbados a complete no, ditto layup afloat).
Does anyone know of an insurer who still accepts the old 12N line as defining the hurricane zone?
 
Pantaenius has no restriction on area in hurricane season. There are requirements such as if you put the boat in the mangroves you must take picutres as to how the boat is secured. Typically, muliple doubled up lines to the mangroves and three anchors one at 180 degrees to the stern and one each at 90, the wind could do a 360. Also, sails off, all canvas work and sprayhood off. You need to check but I think there is a 30% reduction in the claim if the boat is damaged, a good reason to get it right.

We were insured with Pantaenius and we spent hurrican seasons in Trinidad, Venezuela (now no go) and Spanish Waters, Curacao.
 
Pantaenius 'Named Tropical Storms' clause (10.1001/UK/0212), as sent to me on Wednesday.

A named tropical storm is defined as a tropical cyclone which is given a name by the National Hurricane centre.

This clause is operative between July 1st and November 15th inclusive, in the area East of 98W and West of 60W, and between the latitudes 10N and 30.5N. This clause does not apply in the Pacific Ocean.

The deductible including Total & constructive total loss is 20% of the total cost subject to a maximum of €100,000.00.

As said better not get it wrong then
 
Pantaenius want the boats to be scattered across the Caribbean and not concentrated in a few yards.

They also want owners to be motivated to prepare the boat for the storm and not just leave it on a mooring with the canvas and sails still on.

TS / Hurricane Isaac has just blown through not having much impact on the lower islands but boats were left on moorings in anchorages open to the forecast westerly winds. Some are now ashore.
 
fliti said:
My insurer, Admiral, has ceased to accept the previously widely accepted standard definition of hurricane zone as starting N of 12N. Wherever you are in the Caribbean including Trini and Grenada, they require named storm premia, special layup precautions and will accept only a limited number of yards for summer layup(e.g. Barbados a complete no, ditto layup afloat).
Does anyone know of an insurer who still accepts the old 12N line as defining the hurricane zone?
Click to expand...

Hello Breezers!

The only haul out yard here is rather small, and chock-a-block full now, but to write off Barbados for layup ashore due to the huge perceived risk is rather misguided I think.

Ok, TS Isaac passed well north of us a few days ago, and we did have westerly winds about 12 - 15 knots for a day (with some 20 knot gusts probably), and I know of one Sea Ray speedboat here that came ashore in these winds.

And we had TS Tomas pass south of us 2 years ago - some boats on moorings came ashore, or dragged out to sea. All boats ashore were fine.

Before that, ummm...... Ivan passed south of us about 6 or 7 years ago, caused no significant damages, but he did absolutely clobber Grenada.

During the past 30 years we have had various other systems pass north of us, giving us westerly winds for a day or 2, and minor (relatively, in comparison to the total number of boats afloat) damages sustained.

Hurricanes David and Allan passed north of us in 1979 and 1980, and we had gale force winds from them, possibly storm force for a while (it was a long time ago).

The previous hurricane that actually hit Barbados was Janet in 1955.

And yet Admiral think that we are far too risky?

How does the above compare to the number of storms (at all times of year) over the past 30 years that boats in Britain have had to put up with, either ashore or afloat, and the damages sustained as a result?

The sailing out here is generally much easier than in Britain - we have clear water (easy to see reefs) compared to Channel pea soup, and no complex tides to worry about - yet I am paying a premium of 1.5% of insured value on our insurance policy (with a hefty deductible / excess) with a local insurance company here.
And I get the impression that folk in Britain are usually howling with protests if their premiums go over about 0.5%?

(We were insured with Admiral for a few years, as they were less than the local companies here, but then Admiral's rates went through the roof - and this was before Ivan.......)
 
>Pantaenius want the boats to be scattered across the Caribbean and not concentrated in a few yards.

Agree, they took a big hit when Ivan passed over Grenada. In Trini most boats are not prepared for hurricanes and those that are tied down are surrounded by boats that aren't. With all the boats there we estimated the total insurance claim would be at least £25 million and possibly, given some of the big boats there, double that or more.
 
Bajansailor said:
Hello Breezers!

The only haul out yard here is rather small, and chock-a-block full now, but to write off Barbados for layup ashore due to the huge perceived risk is rather misguided I think.

Ok, TS Isaac passed well north of us a few days ago, and we did have westerly winds about 12 - 15 knots for a day (with some 20 knot gusts probably), and I know of one Sea Ray speedboat here that came ashore in these winds.

The sailing out here is generally much easier than in Britain - we have clear water (easy to see reefs) compared to Channel pea soup, and no complex tides to worry about - yet I am paying a premium of 1.5% of insured value on our insurance policy (with a hefty deductible / excess) with a local insurance company here.
And I get the impression that folk in Britain are usually howling with protests if their premiums go over about 0.5%?

(We were insured with Admiral for a few years, as they were less than the local companies here, but then Admiral's rates went through the roof - and this was before Ivan.......)
Click to expand...

Hi Martin,

I think Admiral are charging me nearer 1% if that is a consolation. The question is;would the local insurers pay out in the event of claims?
My renewal comes in early June so that will be crunch time. The other problem with Admiral will be their dogged insistence on renewal of standing rigging after 10 years (Breezer is 2003). My rigging is fine and I have the report to prove it, not to mention recent experiences such as sailing through the Straits at Gib with a 9, gusting 10 plus wicked seas. I would trust it more than a new set up.
Given other comments about the greater flexibility of Pantaenius driven by the very sensible strategy of avoiding all the eggs in one basket, that may make Barbados an option again. I'd leave her in the water at PSC if I could find a decent offer of a slip.
The mangrove option sounds intriguing. Where might that take place?;)
 
>£25m, your having a laugh, there's a few sitting around on the hard worth nearly that much on their own; and Peakes alone would would be worth that!

I must say I've never seen a boat worth nearly £25 million in Peakes or either of the other two yards. Out of interest what was it you saw?
 
'There are a few sitting around on the hard.' - not individual boats. But I would say if we had a hurricane pass through here you'd be looking at a lot more then £25m in total losses and other damage to boats. I think most would just take off across the various boatyards to Venezuela, 95% are not fixed with hurricane straps or solid cradles as they don't have hurricanes down here (Well the last one was 1961 so to most people not one in living memory) so they don't know what to do!

The country would be trashed, they can't handle the rain we've had from the last two passing well to the north of us, what would happen if a 'real' hurricane came through I hate to think.
 
fliti said:
Hi Martin,

I think Admiral are charging me nearer 1% if that is a consolation. The question is;would the local insurers pay out in the event of claims?
My renewal comes in early June so that will be crunch time. The other problem with Admiral will be their dogged insistence on renewal of standing rigging after 10 years (Breezer is 2003). My rigging is fine and I have the report to prove it, not to mention recent experiences such as sailing through the Straits at Gib with a 9, gusting 10 plus wicked seas. I would trust it more than a new set up.
Given other comments about the greater flexibility of Pantaenius driven by the very sensible strategy of avoiding all the eggs in one basket, that may make Barbados an option again. I'd leave her in the water at PSC if I could find a decent offer of a slip.
The mangrove option sounds intriguing. Where might that take place?;)
Click to expand...

Hello Breezers,

If you do decide to insure with a local company here, rather than say a company in England, I have generally found that the companies here are pretty good about paying out on claims. If you tell them that the boat is moored in Port St Charles, they w1ill be very happy, as that is a confirmed 'hurricane hole'.

One slight (or major perhaps) hassle could be if you did have to submit a claim, the odds are that they would only pay out in BDS$, and not be allowed to (or be unwilling to) pay a claim in US$.

Re mangroves, there are none here for yachts to moor in (at least, not yet - I hope that the developers dont get their way with Graeme Hall swamp on the south coast, by St Lawrence = this would be a nice hurricane hole for boats).

There is a very sheltered mangrove inlet in Tyrrell Bay, Carriacou, in the Grenadines, and lots of hurricane holes along the south coast of Grenada.
 
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