Does a lazyjacks system need to be fixed so high on the mast?

PaulGS

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As an inexperienced single-hander I'm keen to fit lazyjacks on my 27' masthead sloop, and I'm having (endless) fun 'designing' a system based on what I see and others opinions. As my main halyard and reef lines are all at the mast I'm inclined to think that the lazyjack lines don't need to be quite as high as is generally fitted as I'm there anyway to 'shepherd' the sail as it descends. What are other people's thoughts? (Oh, and I'm already dead-set on having some short bungees attached to shrouds to spread the lines.)
 

johnalison

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On my double-spreader rig the lazyjacks come from the upper cross-trees, which I think is about average. I have bungee cords at the lower X-trees to spread them. I think with what I assume to be your single-spreader system it would be normal to have the lazyjack attachment above the x-trees and it would certainly be a good idea to bungee them out at the x-trees.
 

Stemar

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Really, they only need to go high enough to catch the sail as it comes down, but you do want the clew end line to be near enough to the clew, and sufficiently vertical to hold the sail and, if possible, the reefing lines; that's where LJs are most useful - the mast track keeps the other end in order.
 

srm

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On a single spreader mast the spreaders are the usual height for attaching lazy jacks. On a double spreader rig I used lower spreaders and they worked well about one third up the mast, but my last boat came with them on the upper spreaders. It did not make any noticeable difference.
 

PaulGS

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Really, they only need to go high enough to catch the sail as it comes down, but you do want the clew end line to be near enough to the clew, and sufficiently vertical to hold the sail and, if possible, the reefing lines; that's where LJs are most useful - the mast track keeps the other end in order.
This hits close to the nub of my thinking. It seems to me that the collection of the leech is the crux of an effective system - so why so high up the mast?
 

Daydream believer

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Right, now we're getting somewhere! What are the disadvantages?
Because when the sail drops instead of the trailing edge dropping between the 2 sets it will tend to flop over one side or the other and snag on the aft line. ( more so with non fully battened sails ). This can pull on the cover attachment point thus tearing it, or at the worse cause the line to break. It can also cause the small leech line cleats to rub across the lazy lines & possibly snag on them meaning that you cannot drop the sail.* It happens if the aft most lazy line is too shallow & one drops the sail a bit too quickly.
.
*Note some sails have these small cam cleats at each reef point to prevent leech flutter. I have adjusted mine & taped them over to prevent them snagging on the lazy lines
 

Tranona

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Right, now we're getting somewhere! What are the disadvantages?
It depends in part on the proportions of your mainsail. The lower down the more of the leech of the sail is behind the last drop of the lazyjacks. Less of a problem then if you have a tall skinny mainsail. The 70% comes from experience of sailmakers as the best compromise.

While lazyjacks are useful for singlehanders by far the best first step is to lead lines aft to the cockpit.
 

Wansworth

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I removed my lazy jacks always catching hoisting and sometimes dropping….on a small main a quick sail tie sorts the sail out till moored up…imvho
 

johnalison

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On my Albin Vega I did think they could be lower than the spreaders or fixed to the spread as sayafoot out from the mast…
There is a limit to how far from the mast they should be, because when the boom moves across this will tension one of the lines. You could, I suppose, have the two lazyjacks connected as a single line ahead of the mast running through blocks. I have only just thought of that and it is probably as ridiculous as it sounds.
 

Daydream believer

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I removed my lazy jacks always catching hoisting and sometimes dropping….on a small main a quick sail tie sorts the sail out till moored up…imvho
But then you have to leave the cockpit to do that & one of the advantages is that one can avoid poncing around on deck as much as possible. Try doing it in an area full of lobster pots in a rolly sea as one approches a port in F6 or more. One soon gets the point of staying safe.
 

Daydream believer

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There is a limit to how far from the mast they should be, because when the boom moves across this will tension one of the lines. You could, I suppose, have the two lazyjacks connected as a single line ahead of the mast running through blocks. I have only just thought of that and it is probably as ridiculous as it sounds.
One adjusts the lines when setting them up to avoid that. One does not have tight LJs so the sail gets freedom of movement. Furthermore the LJs should allow the boom to drop a bit so that it does not put excessive weight on the cover. There is no point ripping the attachment points out of it when the vang gets pulled in. It is OK with a soild vang, but with a topping lift system it is easy for a crew to accidentally let it off so that the boom drops causing the LJs to go tight with a lot of heavy rolled up sail sitting inside the cover.
If the lines are joined at the mast they would still need a line to the deck to adjust them & to get them down when required, if a trip up the mast is not on the cards
 

Daydream believer

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Yes I agree but catching up was a pain and involved pouncing about on the deck as well😂
So what you are saying, Trigger, is that you possible did not have the LJs set right to start with.
What you might have posted was:-
"I set up my LJs wrongly, so took them down"
Having never done it wrong ourselves, we could have given sage like, knowing nods & understood immediately :rolleyes: ;)
 

Wansworth

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So what you are saying, Trigger, is that you possible did not have the LJs set right to start with.
What you might have posted was:-
"I set up my LJs wrongly, so took them down"
We could have given sage like, knowing nods & understood immediately :rolleyes: ;)
Well o Ibought the boat with them attached and not having used such a thing before I didn’t have much fun….I suppose if I had consulted the forum I might have kept them,but It never occurred to me to bother the forum over such a small matter.My next boat probably will have them as they are more universal
 

Neeves

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Originally our LJs were the topping lift, but this meant they had to be exactly the right length for reefing. To be the right length they were then to tight (and wore the sail) so we quickly added a topping lift (as the crane had a spindle for a sheave).

Jonathan
 
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