DOCUMENTATION FOR PORTUGAL

[webmariner]

FINE!!!! €10,000. I moved my pre-owned boat to Portugal 3 years ago with the correct documentation (confirmed by HMRC) now the Portuguese Customs & Excise claim under EU regulations that documents should have been stamped by HMRC when leaving UK. HMRC catagorically state that they would not stamp documents. Has anyone had this same problem and what to do?

 

[peterb26]

I feel for you Stewart. I wouldnt mind betting you are battling with the Faro Alfandêga?? (In the building just 100 yards east of the Railway Station).

Unfortunately - the Portuguese Customs and Excise operate under their own private Portuguse rules, despite being part of the EU.

Their logic is quite simple - by totally flouting the EU Laws they raise (for want of a better figure) lets say 50 Million Euros each year by fining innocent boaters like you and re-issuing VAT demands to boater like me. (We are talking big money here at 21% on the average boat)

The toothless wonder known more formally as the EU knows that they do this - so each year Portugal are fined the massive sum of (lets say) 10 Million Euros by the EU.

Those with a mathematical slant will have worked out that this actually leaves Portugal 40 Million Euros better off than if they abided by EU regs.

Hence the Portuguese say "Muito Obrigado EU" - followed by a sharp "Bom Dia, Ciao" - and pay the fine.

I apologise for the flippancy but its a massive problem and there is no solution.

In my case - I purchased a 7 month old ex-demo boat in the UK from the importer. Paid 17.5% VAT here and got all the documentation. Kept it here for 5 months, did an SSR registration and then took it to portugal.

Everything I did was spot on - tickety boo - and above board.

What did the Portuguese do?

Told me to pay 21% Portuguese VAT as my intentions were to keep the boat in Portugal. (Bit of a shock that - on top of the 17.5% I had already paid).

Gave me 7 days to pay the money - or take the boat out of portugal or have it impounded.

I paid up as our apartment by the Marina at Lagos is much nicer with a boat on the pontoon that I can play with when I feel like it.

Then just for fun they fined me for "breaking their rules". My lawyer says that he is hopeful I will get away with a fine of 150 Euros so it wont break the bank.

In my case I am slightly better off than you as there is a mechanism to reclaim the British VAT. The dreaded NMT form.

At some point I will (hopefully) get the UK VAT back.

However, the Portuguese are TOTALLY AND UTTERLY FLOUTING EU LAW in their actions with you and with me.

I do hope you can find someone to help you but I fear that this is unlikely. I was held pretty much "hostage" by the Faro Alfandêga for 5 hours whilst my wife wondered what on earth had happened to me. It was not the most enjoyable 5 hours of my life and for much of it I thought I would be spending the night in the cells........

The moral of the story is - the Portuguese are lovely people - unless they are wearing a uniform, like the GNR, Alfandega and Policia Maritima. You want to give all of those a wide berth.

Oh - and dont go ANYWHERE out there in your boat without all the documents, SSR Cert, Insurance Cert, ICC or equivalent and Passport!!

 

[jimbaerselman]

You may have been affected by the general EU rule, that if you spend more than 183 days in a year in a country, you come nder their taxation regime.

Among other things, this implies that you must re-register your vessel as a Portuguese vessel, and meet the Portuguese requirements for equipping and manning the vessel. This implies importing the vessel . . . and thus (sometimes) paying VAT and re-claiming VAT from the coutry exporting it. It also implies liabilities for taxation on items with capital value (houses, yachts). Whether these actually are applied in Portugal I don't know, but Spain is doing so.

 

[Sneds]

Sounds like a racket to me!
The foreign office should get involved, seems like nautical "lang grab!"

Can't we tell the EU to sod off re red diesel?
One rule for one?

 

[peterb26]

Jim, Stewart may have been affected by the 183 day law, but it doesnt affect me. We keep our days in portugal to around 150 at a maximum.

Sneddon - yes, its a racket.

 

[peterb26]

Stewart - not sure if you have been back online but I suggest you try an email to the British Consulate.

britcon.portimao@mail.telepac.pt

 

[webmariner]

Hi Ancient Mariner, have been away for few days. Thanks your 2 msgs. Had been thinking to contact British Consulate in Portimao or even our MEP. It does seem to me that the EU rules should apply equally to all EU countries - maybe I'm being naive! Shall be in the Algarve 10/07 any merit in meeting up? All the best, Stewart

 

[peterb26]

Have PM'ed you.

 

[peterb26]

I have received a reply from the Consulate in Portimao as follows.

Dear Ancient Mariner

Thank you for your e-mail. I'm sorry to hear of your problems with the Portuguese authorities.

I have consulted the Embassy in Lisbon and our view is that the EU-wide organisation called SOLVIT is the best channel for resolving cases like yours.

The main purpose of the SOLVIT organisation is to help to solve problems in cases where EU nationals believe that their rights under the internal market provisions are being infringed. The UK SOLVIT office is in the DTI in London, and the Portugal branch is run from the Portuguese Foreign Ministry in Lisbon. This may all sound a bit bureaucratic, but our experience suggests that the system works quite well.

I hope this is useful.

Bill Henderson
British Consul
The Algarve

 

[peterb26]

Just looked up the info for Solvit.
Shown below.

UK SOLVIT Centre/Action Single Market
Bay 4123
1 Victoria Street,
London
SW1H 0ET

Tel: 020 7215 2800/2833
Fax: 020 7215 2234
E-mail: asm@dti.gsi.gov.uk