Do you need electric halyard winches??

[Oscarpop]

New boat being spec'd and there is an (expensive) option to have one of the winches upgraded to an electric one.

Now the old boat had a 12m mast and the new one is 15m. I am a fairly strong lad, although my other half at 5'2" is not as strong.

I want to ask; should we have an electric winch if we want a long term liveaboard? I figure it will be hugely useful for mast climbing shorthanded. MOB recovery etc. And possibly worth the £2500 expense.

Your thoughts?

 

[Quandary]

Yep, a lot more use than a bowthruster, if you do short trips it will mean you sail a lot more as you can stick the main up at a whim without breaking sweat. However if you contemplate long offshore passages where the sails are up for days or weeks it is probably not so useful. On a much smaller boat with a 15m. mast even with 8 wheeled MDS batten cars it takes a bit of time and effort to put the main up just because of the sheer weight of it. I am sorely tempted by the idea of converting our Harken main halyard winch as it would considerably reduce the amount of use the engine gets.
Note that current Harken winches can have a motor retrofitted so you could try it without first without incurring much cost.

 

[Twister_Ken]

New boat being spec'd and there is an (expensive) option to have one of the winches upgraded to an electric one.

Now the old boat had a 12m mast and the new one is 15m. I am a fairly strong lad, although my other half at 5'2" is not as strong.

I want to ask; should we have an electric winch if we want a long term liveaboard? I figure it will be hugely useful for mast climbing shorthanded. MOB recovery etc. And possibly worth the £2500 expense.

Your thoughts?

I have a 14.7m mast (plus a bit below deck) and can get the main about 2/3rds up before needing to use a winch handle, so no doubt you'd cope without electrickery. But, for mast climbing it would be good - although maybe you can arrange to lead the halyard to the anchor windlass and skin the cat that way, saving the £2.5K for wine cellar contents.

 

[npf1]

A far cheaper option is one of these: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285489

Working very well for me so far on quite a large boat.

 

[Fergus]

Milwaukee 32v right angle drill does it for me!

 

[maby]

Not me - I steer and it's the wife that hauls up the sails! She's terrified of steering - and who am I to disagree?

 

[pissativlypossed]

New boat being spec'd and there is an (expensive) option to have one of the winches upgraded to an electric one.

Now the old boat had a 12m mast and the new one is 15m. I am a fairly strong lad, although my other half at 5'2" is not as strong.

I want to ask; should we have an electric winch if we want a long term liveaboard? I figure it will be hugely useful for mast climbing shorthanded. MOB recovery etc. And possibly worth the £2500 expense.

Your thoughts?

Do it, we have one on the coach roof that handles the furling jib and the in mast main. SWMBO loves it.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Yes it would be a good idea to have one for exactly the reasons you give. No need to faff about leading lines to an anchor windlass. Your partner will appreciate it and I am sure it would be regretted if not fitted.

 

[snooks]

A far cheaper option is one of these: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285489

Working very well for me so far on quite a large boat.

But the manufacturers say it is NOT for winching people up the mast, and should not be used for that purpose.

I went down the extra long topping lift and windlass option for getting me up the mast

 

[prv]

Do it, we have one on the coach roof that handles the furling jib and the in mast main. SWMBO loves it.

Hmm, don't think I'd want to electrically winch either of those. I don't have masses of experience with in-mast mains, but I've always had a rule never to winch in a furling headsail. Every time I've broken that rule I've jammed or broken something on the gear.

I can see that very large boats might require the use of a winch, but in that case I'd want to use a manual one where I have at least some chance of noticing an abnormally high load. Pressing a button until something goes ping seems a risk otherwise.

Pete

 

[npf1]

But the manufacturers say it is NOT for winching people up the mast, and should not be used for that purpose.

I went down the extra long topping lift and windlass option for getting me up the mast

Yep, seen that. But note also that when using any electric winch, winchhandle, windlass or similar to hoist someone up the mast, it's not a good idea to use the self tailer at all. Wasn't that the moral of the story of that nasty accident somwhere in the Caribean earlier this year. I'd also not use the self tailer when it's important to be able to feel the pressure, such as furling.

But, back to the responding to the OP's question, another thing to consider for mainsails etc is a ballbearing cars and a track as they make a huge difference in the ease of hoisting, reefing and dropping sails.

 

[prv]

Yep, seen that. But note also that when using any electric winch, winchhandle, windlass or similar to hoist someone up the mast, it's not a good idea to use the self tailer at all. Wasn't that the moral of the story of that nasty accident somwhere in the Caribean earlier this year.

If that's the one where the lady got her hand pulled into the winch, I never quite understood why it's seen as a problem with hoisting someone up the mast. Surely what was on the other end of the rope was more or less immaterial? If someone's hand can be pulled into an electric self-tailer while lifting a bosun's chair, surely exactly the same thing could happen with a sail on the end of the line? In which case the conclusion is surely either 1) it was an unlucky accident or 2) electric self-tailers are dangerous and shouldn't be fitted at all.

Pete

 

[Ricd]

Hmm, don't think I'd want to electrically winch either of those. I don't have masses of experience with in-mast mains, but I've always had a rule never to winch in a furling headsail. Every time I've broken that rule I've jammed or broken something on the gear.

I can see that very large boats might require the use of a winch, but in that case I'd want to use a manual one where I have at least some chance of noticing an abnormally high load. Pressing a button until something goes ping seems a risk otherwise.

Pete

100% agree...on reasonable sized boats if it is stiff stop pulling and find out why...don't use the winch to compound the problem.

 

[npf1]

If that's the one where the lady got her hand pulled into the winch, I never quite understood why it's seen as a problem with hoisting someone up the mast. Surely what was on the other end of the rope was more or less immaterial? If someone's hand can be pulled into an electric self-tailer while lifting a bosun's chair, surely exactly the same thing could happen with a sail on the end of the line? In which case the conclusion is surely either 1) it was an unlucky accident or 2) electric self-tailers are dangerous and shouldn't be fitted at all.

Pete

Re 2), I don't draw that conclusion and don't think electric self tailers are dangerous if used appropriately. There's plenty in service - has been for years - and not many reports of accidents.

Although I'm not sure of the exact details of that case, IIRC, the issue might have been caused by a faulty button which meant the winch continued to turn when the button was released. If that was the case, not using the self tailer (and I don't know if it indeed was in that case) might have prevented the accident, assuming, of course, that the user knew how to use a winch safely.

 

[prv]

Re 2), I don't draw that conclusion and don't think electric self tailers are dangerous if used appropriately. There's plenty in service - has been for years - and not many reports of accidents.

I tend to agree, so my conclusion is 1) - unlucky accident. My point is that every time it's suggested that an electric winch be used to hoist someone up the mast, someone will pipe up to say "oh no, that's terribly dangerous, just look at that poor woman in the Caribbean". They don't say that about all the people winching in genoas or hoisting mainsails with electric winches - why not?

Pete

 

[snooks]

They don't say that about all the people winching in genoas or hoisting mainsails with electric winches - why not?

Pete

Sails can't sue?

 

[NormanS]

With in-mast furling, our main goes up in the Spring, and down in the Autumn.

With our mast-steps, there's none of this nasty heaving required, if I want to go up.

Both ideas worth considering.

 

[charles_reed]

Yep, a lot more use than a bowthruster, if you do short trips it will mean you sail a lot more as you can stick the main up at a whim without breaking sweat. However if you contemplate long offshore passages where the sails are up for days or weeks it is probably not so useful. On a much smaller boat with a 15m. mast even with 8 wheeled MDS batten cars it takes a bit of time and effort to put the main up just because of the sheer weight of it. I am sorely tempted by the idea of converting our Harken main halyard winch as it would considerably reduce the amount of use the engine gets.
Note that current Harken winches can have a motor retrofitted so you could try it without first without incurring much cost.

Unless, of course, you have an in-mast furling main.
IMHO the only tangible benefit of such a system

 

[charles_reed]

New boat being spec'd and there is an (expensive) option to have one of the winches upgraded to an electric one.

Now the old boat had a 12m mast and the new one is 15m. I am a fairly strong lad, although my other half at 5'2" is not as strong.

I want to ask; should we have an electric winch if we want a long term liveaboard? I figure it will be hugely useful for mast climbing shorthanded. MOB recovery etc. And possibly worth the £2500 expense.

Your thoughts?

Personally, unless you're arthritic and failing visibly like me AND have a fully battened main, such a device is overkill.

I find the lead back to the cockpit causes the most friction and, when I have crew get them to tail and I pull on the external part of the line - no winch at all.

PS Luff 13.75m, roach overlaps backstay (about 32m2)

 

[Beadle]

On Olive - who is a gaff ketch I have two electric winches on each mast - one for the peak and one for the throat.

The winches are ones designed for off road vehicles at £50 apiece.

The rating is 2000lbs each so well within spec. I have used them to pull me up the masts. I feel much safer on the winch than with SWMBO trying to winch me up on a genoa winch.

They make sail handling with only 2 of us on board so much easier it is a pleasure. I can have main and mizzen set in 2 or 3 minutes with no effort. The main gaff is solid wood about 7 or 8'' diameter and some 12 ft long with galvanized steel fittings and is heavy - very heavy. Raising it manually on my own would be a defibrillator job.

The winches have galvanized wire on a drum - it gets regularly squirted with WD40 and spray on grease. To date its about 4 yr old and still looks ok, but I'll probably change it next year on principle.