do we really have to avoid Belgium at all costs?

[Burnham Bob]

I'm armchair cruise planning at the moment because for all sorts of reasons our proposed first trip to holland this year never took place due to **** weather and prior commitments.

SWMBO doesn't fancy the direct route to Vlissingen from the Crouch or Harwich and wants to cross over the Thames estuary to Ramsgate (she likes Ramsgate!) and then to Dunkerque and coast hop to Vlissingen via Ostend.

However, we'd have a tank of red diesel when we start and although I can manage white diesel in the spare cans, I can still see me having some red diesel in the tank when we hit Ostend. Are the Belgians really imposing fines -despite the RYA having a letter from the EU for download that says you're okay as long as the red diesel is in the tank and you have receipts showing duty paid?

 

[samwise]

I think it has been clear for some time that the EU administration does not approve of the UK being out of step in allowing red diesel to be used by leisure boaters.
While appearing --on the face of it -- to be flexible over the issue, they are turning a blind eye to authorities who decide to go ahead with "local interpretation" of the regulations.

It's pretty blatant and I suspect that even if someone takes the time and energy ( and spends the money) for a test case at the European Court, it will be a rearguard action at best and only putting off the evil day when red diesel is outlawed completely for leisure sailors.

I would not be surprised if the boardings and checks are stepped up progressively to put pressure on us.

The option is, of course, for us to boycott those countries guilty of excessive zeal and imposing "local interpretation" rules. It would interesting to find out how many boaters have already been put off from visiting some of our most popular cruising grounds by these excessive actions.

 

[westhinder]

I'm armchair cruise planning at the moment because for all sorts of reasons our proposed first trip to holland this year never took place due to **** weather and prior commitments.

SWMBO doesn't fancy the direct route to Vlissingen from the Crouch or Harwich and wants to cross over the Thames estuary to Ramsgate (she likes Ramsgate!) and then to Dunkerque and coast hop to Vlissingen via Ostend.

However, we'd have a tank of red diesel when we start and although I can manage white diesel in the spare cans, I can still see me having some red diesel in the tank when we hit Ostend. Are the Belgians really imposing fines -despite the RYA having a letter from the EU for download that says you're okay as long as the red diesel is in the tank and you have receipts showing duty paid?

Belgian Customs officers quite regularly patrol Belgian ports and wander along the pontoons to test the diesel in the tank. I think their first priority is discouraging us Belgian yachtsmen from using red diesel by putting heavy fines on those caught. Whether they are also targetting visiting British yachtsmen is less clear.
For Belgian yachts they do not accept British receipts as valid proof that duty has been paid. The clubs have promised to take the matter to the courts, but I have not heard any outcome.
It would be a crying shame if Customs chased away visiting yachtsmen who simply follow their country's rules. That that particular rule might not stand in the future should not be a factor.

 

[vyv_cox]

Dunkerque to Vlissingen or Breskens is a reasonable day sail, you could miss out Belgium altogether.

 

[sailorman]

Dunkerque to Vlissingen or Breskens is a reasonable day sail, you could miss out Belgium altogether.

then miss out on very good bier & fine food

 

[aluijten]

Don't do this, the Dutch customs are just as pitiful as the Belgians. We also have our share of overzealous custom clowns. Just make sure you have white diesel in you tanks. It ain't worth the trouble otherwise.

 

[Burnham Bob]

can't quite see how i can fill the tanks with white diesel short of ferrying cans from a garage to the boat and filling the tank in relays. i suppose i could run the tank down on theway to ramsgate, walk to a garage and top up cans with road diesel and cross with a sort of pink diesel mixture and white diesel in the cans having refilled them in case i need the diesel and then top up the tank with whatever the diesel is in dunkerque but it seems a really complicated process simply because of the EU rulings being ignored.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Agreed... For me, filling with white diesel is completely impractical... Max can size at most filling stations is 5 gallons, and i've got a 200 gallon tank... No way i'm doing that many trips as well as paying significantly more for the fuel.

Sadly i've heard quite a few boats this year say that they are avoiding Belgium and The Netherlands because of concerns over this.

Talk about the local customs teams cutting off their noses to spite their faces... Lost thousands, if not millions, in spend coming into the country in response to a tax that most British boats cannot practically avoid not paying!!!!

 

[aluijten]

I can only agree with you. I can only offer my sympathy as a citizen of a country that is very anal about taxing the ordinary people. I suppose we need to as we collect hardly any taxes from big companies, many of them located behind our sea defenses because of this.

 

[maxi77]

The reality is that the UK is the only coun try in the EU that tries to apply all the rules. Most happily ignore those that they find inconvenient. Her in Portugal there are quite a few rules that are imposed which are not in tune with the single market but are still enforced.

 

[Supine Being]

The reality is that the UK is the only coun try in the EU that tries to apply all the rules. Most happily ignore those that they find inconvenient. Her in Portugal there are quite a few rules that are imposed which are not in tune with the single market but are still enforced.

Agreed, but this seems to be the exception that proves the rule. For once we're the backsliders when it comes to applying the regulation.

 

[maxi77]

Agreed, but this seems to be the exception that proves the rule. For once we're the backsliders when it comes to applying the regulation.

Not really, the EU has approved the UK position though for simplicity they would like us to use white for leisure use. The Belgiums and the Dutch are breaking the rules by penalising people who have complied with the law. One suspects they make examples of the nasty foreigners to encourage the locals to be good boys.

 

[angelsson]

Not really, the EU has approved the UK position though for simplicity they would like us to use white for leisure use. The Belgiums and the Dutch are breaking the rules by penalising people who have complied with the law. One suspects they make examples of the nasty foreigners to encourage the locals to be good boys.

What another perfect example of meddling interference in matters decided by the UK, and another example of why we must remove ourselves as a nation from the EU.

 

[DanTribe]

As I understand it, we are now paying the tax [well some of us anyway] , so why can't we be given white diesel and comply with the rules?

 

[Burnham Bob]

The continued supply of red diesel at marinas is due I think to the large capital cost of having two diesel pumps and tanks. Fishermen can still use red diesel so if leisure users want white, the marina has to have two installations.

The obvious workaround (at least to me!) is that fishermen (who i believe are in the minority at marinas) should use white diesel but have certificates of exemption that allow them to purchase white diesel at reduced cost - ie minus the duty for road fuel.

At least that seems sensible for marinas, large commercial ports could continue to have red diesel available.

As it is, as various posts above point out, filling your tank with white diesel is just about possible for me with a small tank on a sailing boat, but totally impossible on a large mobo.

 

[reginaldon]

What another perfect example of meddling interference in matters decided by the UK, and another example of why we must remove ourselves as a nation from the EU.

Hear, Hear! to the nth power

 

[prv]

another example of why we must remove ourselves as a nation from the EU.

I'm no lover of the EU, but surely in this particular case that would be counterproductive? If we weren't an EU member, with EU law saying it's ok for us to have red in our tanks because of a UK exemption, we'd have even more difficulty showing up in European countries with what would now be genuinely illegal fuel?

(As it happens, my tank's currently full of white from the garage anyway, cos the fuel barge was closed the last time I needed to fill up. I can top off with a couple of 20-litre jerries and a plastic lawnmower can.)

Pete

 

[rickym]

Filled the tank last weekend 80l of red from the fuel berth near me. Previous fill was white from accross the channel, how the bejezus am I going to fill up with white, nearest filling station to my mooring is over a mile away. The sooner this nonsense is sorted the better. Diesel in my tank is now a nice shade of pink!

 

[savageseadog]

The obvious workaround (at least to me!) is that fishermen (who i believe are in the minority at marinas) should use white diesel but have certificates of exemption that allow them to purchase white diesel at reduced cost - ie minus the duty for road fuel.

I think you'll find that fishing boat fuel consumption will go up massively!

 

[savageseadog]

I'm no lover of the EU, but surely in this particular case that would be counterproductive? If we weren't an EU member, with EU law saying it's ok for us to have red in our tanks because of a UK exemption, we'd have even more difficulty showing up in European countries with what would now be genuinely illegal fuel?

Pete

Wrong. British flagged vessels will be able to run on whatever fuel they want, EU rules would not be enforceable.