Do I need radar to cross the channel?

[Montemar]

We shall be crossing the channel and going to Cherbourg early May. Surely I do not need radar and AIS and MK1 eyeballs would be sufficient? However I was told that good mobo weather is also good fog weather and I should be prepared. Have I met a Jonah or would it be a good idea to shell out mucho dinero? Should I get broadband? Should I bother?

 

[sailorman]

We shall be crossing the channel and going to Cherbourg early May. Surely I do not need radar and AIS and MK1 eyeballs would be sufficient? However I was told that good mobo weather is also good fog weather and I should be prepared. Have I met a Jonah or would it be a good idea to shell out mucho dinero? Should I get broadband? Should I bother?

No
its a nice to have thats it

our first crossing Harwich to Belgium in 1978
we had
26` sailing boat
depth sounder
boat speed log
compass
HB compass
nothing else
charts

 

[hlb]

Radar is a bit like a life raft, you wont need it, till you need it. Plus it will tell you how far away these ships are, which you cant tell by looking out the window.

After my first experience, I would not go to sea without it. Having said that, there is only once or maybe twice a year I've needed it. Bit like fog lights, you dont need them either, humm, till there is fog.

 

[Searush]

If you have 1500 squid to spend & a trained operator on board to use it, great. Otherwise, pick a nice day with no fog forecast & turn back if visibility deteriorates enough to possibly threaten your safety.

Radar - even the modern stuff, needs to be set up correctly & needs a person who knows how to use it to adjust the controls & interpret the display. If you don't have a suitable crew member available, the set will just become an anxiety creator & a distraction from looking out of the window at reality.

 

[LittleSister]

In a nutshell, no.

 

[hlb]

If you have 1500 squid to spend & a trained operator on board to use it, great. Otherwise, pick a nice day with no fog forecast & turn back if visibility deteriorates enough to possibly threaten your safety.

Radar - even the modern stuff, needs to be set up correctly & needs a person who knows how to use it to adjust the controls & interpret the display. If you don't have a suitable crew member available, the set will just become an anxiety creator & a distraction from looking out of the window at reality.

Totally absolute *******s. With sense you use the radar, when you do not actually need it, so soon find what settings make sense. It's fairly obvious really. Your just looking for a good picture, if you change the range, then you need to reset the gain again, till the picture comes clear again. It's not rocket science.

 

[timbartlett]

Totally absolute *******s. With sense you use the radar, when you do not actually need it, so soon find what settings make sense. It's fairly obvious really. Your just looking for a good picture, if you change the range, then you need to reset the gain again, till the picture comes clear again. It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science, but few people find it quite as "obvious" as hlb suggests. And while most modern radars are able to get a reasonable picture on "auto" setttings, the clever bit is interpreting what you are seeing -- and that is definitely down to the operator, rather than the radar.

But no, you don't "need " one.

 

[Sneds]

If you do have one I always thought it was a legal requirement that you knew how to use it?

 

[LittleShip]

If you do have one I always thought it was a legal requirement that you knew how to use it?

Correct, somebody on here will be able to quote verbatum but it's something on the lines of..

If it's fitted you must use it and that means all the time not just in poor weather. I think it's from the 1972 prevention of collision at sea act.

I hate my radar and I have used it a few times, its old and grumpy (like many on here) and takes too much fiddling with.

I would rather have a bow thruster than radar, I feel I would use more often

Tom

 

[PeterGibbs]

We shall be crossing the channel and going to Cherbourg early May. Surely I do not need radar and AIS and MK1 eyeballs would be sufficient? However I was told that good mobo weather is also good fog weather and I should be prepared. Have I met a Jonah or would it be a good idea to shell out mucho dinero? Should I get broadband? Should I bother?

Yes, E-NE breezes in May have a higher chance of bringing reduced vis on the Channel. If you can wait for a clear forecast, you could save the investment.

But my personal experience is that having radar on board is a lot more than an occasional convenience. I wouldn't set out in fog even with radar, but if it strikes en route what then?
I fitted radar (years ago) the very next week after just escaping a rundown off Zeebrugge in an unexpected fog bank.

I suggest to those who wonder about how to set it up and what to read off the screen, just install as recommended, and have it running for several trips in good vis, noting the corresponding targets and dynamics of the approach. The variable bearing line is a tool beyond compare and, in combination with the range finder will dig you out of many situations. Think too about how to make landfall in fog - approaching Cherbourg and the narrow E entrance at night, you will appreciate radar - those walls are rather tough!

AIS? not in the same class.

PWG

 

[DougH]

I hate my radar and I have used it a few times, its old and grumpy (like many on here) and takes too much fiddling with.

I would rather have a bow thruster than radar, I feel I would use more often

Tom

Tom,I have a Raymarine HD Radar fitted (2009 model year) and consider it essential at times and consider it a great piece of kit.

We are in Mallorca and on occasions during the summer use it to detect the locals small fishing boats when the sun is very bright and low. it is very effective at ranges up to 2-3 miles for this purpose.

Before anyone says anything, yes we use eyes first and the radar 2nd in line

Time to buy Littleship a new radar maybe?

On our delivery trip to Mallorca during May 2009 we crossed the Channel from Dartmouth to the North Western tip of France and had a very very experienced delivery skipper with us.

We all studied the weather very carefully and had no trouble arriving at decision that conditions looked good for the crossing.

In mid Channel we came across a thick blanket of Sea Fog about 5 miles in depth and I can assure you that I have never been more happy to have a good radar in my life.

Proceeding at 5 knots we picked up the echoes of what appeared to be a fishing fleet who did not make any sound signals like us and refused to answer our calls on the vhf in both English and French.

We attempted to go around the but no matter which way we steered it seemed the fishing boats altered course to push us away.(They may have had good reason for their actions)

Eventually we managed to get westerly of the fleet and continue the crossing.

Just as the Sea Fog was starting to lift a new target appeared on the screen coming from more or less dead ahead. We made a obvious change of course to starboard and he maintained his course.

The radar was spot on when the other vessel appeared out of the fog an though it was some 800 metres away it still was a shock just how near it seemed on first sight.

No, he was not making any sound signals but we were.

ALL OF THESE ACTIONS WERE CARRIED OUT USING THE RADAR AND 3 PAIR OF GOOD EYES, and of course the plotter was showing a clear sea.

I am of the opinion, having crossed the Channel in most conditions on many occasions that a radar is essential.

My advice to the OP is to team up with another boat who has a radar (and is experienced in using it) and do the trip together.

Their is nothing like safety in numbers.

 

[nedmin]

Some years ago came from Vlissingen to Lowestoft with no radar, about 3 hrs in hit a fog bank,fortunately it was only about for 5 minutes,thought how lucky I was,especially crossing busy shipping lanes.A couple of years ago left the R Trent ,entered the Humber,same again hit a fog bank,found radar a godsend.Both times no fog forecast.You dont use it much but it takes the pressure off when its available.

 

[Stork_III]

If you do have one I always thought it was a legal requirement that you knew how to use it?

Not for UK leisure craft.

 

[Searush]

From the replies about how good it is, are you able to put an experienced crewmember on it virtually full time?

 

[DougH]

From the replies about how good it is, are you able to put an experienced crewmember on it virtually full time?

A good radar does does not need a crew member on it full time but it does help if the crew keeps a really good lookout and the helmsman is able to view the screen from the helm.

Remember the range of a good modern radar has to be seen to be believed

You don't need the old "reading tube' with modern sets.

Best thing to do is get a ride on a flybridge boat with a modern radar (pref HD) and apply all the covers to the lower windows so that the saloon is completely blacked out and the plotter off. then with a helmsman on the flybridge try and give navigation instructions to the helmsman via the radio.

You will be surprised how proficient you will quickly become.

It's a great training exercise and one that David Griffiths of Mercator Maritime,the training school uses with excellent results.

 

[gjgm]

We shall be crossing the channel and going to Cherbourg early May. Surely I do not need radar and AIS and MK1 eyeballs would be sufficient? However I was told that good mobo weather is also good fog weather and I should be prepared. Have I met a Jonah or would it be a good idea to shell out mucho dinero? Should I get broadband? Should I bother?

I think the answer lies in your question.
We shall be crossing... well, if you have already made your mind up, then yes radar is sensible.
#However, if actually you mean if all looks good, tides, weather wind ,sea state, we hope to cross to Cherbourg... then no, you dont need it. Yes fog can come up unexpectedly, but the forecasts for that 70 miles is likely to be dependable.
AIS gives you the big stuff, and you have enough speed to get out of the way things.
Of course, you have to get back again !

 

[sailorman]

I think the answer lies in your question.
We shall be crossing... well, if you have already made your mind up, then yes radar is sensible.
#However, if actually you mean if all looks good, tides, weather wind ,sea state, we hope to cross to Cherbourg... then no, you dont need it. Yes fog can come up unexpectedly, but the forecasts for that 70 miles is likely to be dependable.
AIS gives you the big stuff, and you have enough speed to get out of the way things.
Of course, you have to get back again !

a Sealine 23 will be much quicker than the 26 footer i first crossed in.
we took prol 14 > 16 hrs to do the 72 mls

 

[Searush]

There's no way I could mount 1500 squids worth of electronics out in the open cockpit of my ketch. The risks of damage to it (or crewmembers) from rope & sail handling, seaway movement, rain, ice & even theft is far too great.

It would have to be below & thus not visible from the helm. Fine if you are sat indoors at your steering wheel with the screen on the desk in front of you, but my elderly yacht is not built like that!

 

[omega2]

Totally absolute *******s. With sense you use the radar, when you do not actually need it, so soon find what settings make sense. It's fairly obvious really. Your just looking for a good picture, if you change the range, then you need to reset the gain again, till the picture comes clear again. It's not rocket science.

we just keep off the green bits

 

[MapisM]

Totally absolute *******s. With sense you use the radar, when you do not actually need it, so soon find what settings make sense. It's fairly obvious really. Your just looking for a good picture, if you change the range, then you need to reset the gain again, till the picture comes clear again. It's not rocket science.

I'm not saying it is, but I agree with SR and the others who suggest it's not trivial, either.
Problem is, if you play with the radar "when you do not actually need it", adjusting the gain a bit after each range change, and you think to have learned all there's to learn, you're bound to think again whenever you'll REALLY need it.
I've been a few times in heavy rain (and by heavy I mean heavy enough to not see the burgee at the bow, while helming from the p/house), while cruising inside islets along the Croatian coast.
Fully instrumental navigation: I could have left the windshield covers on, it wasn't even worth using the wipers.
And in one case, also the sea conditions were pretty bad, so the boat was bouncing around quite a bit (which in turn affects also the radar reading).
Believe me, it was not easy at all to understand if some radar returns were other boats, clouds full of rain or islands.
And needless to say, such differences affect your route options quite a bit...