Do I need a liferaft?

[Thepipdoc]

At first site the title of this thread might seem like a silly question but I'll ask it anyway!
(I say its a silly qustion but I think I know the answer even before I ask it!)

I don't currently have a life raft on board my new (to Me) Sealine F33 and and whilst most of our trips are costal, we do intend to make several trips to the channel islands and France in 2011.
The question is should I have a liferaft aboard?

 

[photodog]

If the boat sinks, how far can you swim?

 

[Thepipdoc]

If the boat sinks, how far can you swim?

It's a good point....... not very far is the answer.

 

[Ripster]

Same sort of Question as a Motorcyclist saying do I need to wear a crash helmet? Only when you have a an accident. IMO, yes you should and whilst you will probably never need it, its there if you do. We have carried one on board all of our boats from 20ft up. You can't be too safe at Sea!

 

[Bandit]

You would be lucky to last more than 2 hours in the water yes you do.

 

[Coaster]

I wonder how many times a well maintained 30' - 35' motorboat has sunk in UK or French waters and the people on board would not have survived, or did not survive, without a liferaft?

This is a genuine enquiry. If the answer is none, it must at least call into question the "need" for a liferaft.

I do not subscribe to the "you can't be too careful" argument. Where would precautions end? Should each boat be followed by its own rescue vessel - just in case?

Instead, people should be encouraged to properly assess the risks attached to their own actions and to take precautions appropriate in the circumstances. Personally I'd rather go cross-English Channel with a good, inflated tender ready to use in the event of needing to abandon ship and to spend the cost of a liferaft (circa £1,000 each 10 years?) on an EPIRB, a PLB and a good grab bag with handheld VHF etc. (I am taking it for granted that any sensible person going afloat will have a suitable lifejacket and appropriate clothing etc.)

But if you think you need a liferaft, perhaps to reassure anyone that may be anxious, then of course the right thing to do is to get one.

 

[petem]

For messing about in the Solent in the summer, I would say no.

For crossing the channel with no other boats then yes.

A tender may be a sufficient alternative. You could also consider renting one for thos cross channel trips.

All IMHO!

Pete

 

[Colvic Watson]

I guarantee you don't need a liferaft. Number of rescues from liferafts in the UK in the last 5 years? 2 - just 2. And during those 5 years how many millions of miles were motored/sailed in the UK? You have more chance of winning the lottery than using your raft.

A different question: do you want a liferaft? The answer is probably like me a 'yes'. I knew the figure above but still got one because I couldn't face taking the family across the North Sea without one. And as for coastal vs cross channel; it's a pointless question since I could no more swim me and my children 5 miles to shore across a 2 knot tide than I could swim them 35 miles back to shore. You buy a liferaft for the feeling it gives you. And a bloody good feeling it is too.

 

[burgundyben]

When we go out of the Solent the rubber Avon dinghy is blown up and in the cockpit along with grab bags containing radios and flares etc. I've only had to launch it once, a auto extinguisher went off in the engine room, but there was no fire, so hauled the indghy back in and carried on!

 

[Ripster]

[/quote] You buy a liferaft for the feeling it gives you. And a bloody good feeling it is too.[/QUOTE]

That's well put. Probably why a lot of folks carry one including me.

 

[photodog]

Seems a bit silly to spend maybe £150k on a boat... and then not spend £600 on a liferaft....

We rented for a couple of years, but then the price came down a few years back for a basic one... and it made more sense to puchase...

I would recomend that you get one in a hard case, and mount it externally... we had a valise one in a locker.. until i realised that there was no way swmbo could have got it out on her own...


I would also recomend that you and swmbo do the RYA sea survival course over the winter... it gives you experience of actually using one, and is a good laugh as well. I personally think the sea survival course is the single best course we have taken, and should be mandatory!

 

[Tranona]

I agree with muddypaws - just read the MAIB and Irish equivalent reports over the last 10 years or so and you will find less then 20 cases where a liferaft was, or could have been deployed. None of them involved MOBOs. Of those that were deployed, only two performed as they were expected to - and both of these were planned abandon ship with time to launch it properly, and in benign conditions. All the deployments in adverse conditions or in a panic had problems. 3 did not work properly. Closer analysis of the underlying cause of the incidents identifies only 3 situations. Overwhelmed by conditions, structural failure ( 2 of which were racing boats losing keels) and collision. So, if you don't go out in extreme conditions, have a structurally sound boat and keep clear of big ships you will never need a liferaft. BTW none of the incidents involved a mum and dad and 2.4 on their summer holidays.

I agree with Photodog. Do the survival course - I did one over 30 years ago and resolved never to get into a situation when I would have to resort to a liferaft.

By all means buy one - they are cheap and keep a lot of Chinese workers and service people here employed. Just don't expect ever to use it, and if you are one of that tiny elite that does, don't expect it to work properly. For some perverse reason it also makes many people feel they are responsible and caring peoiple. Win Win, but a complete waste of money!

Of course if your boat is coded like mine you have to buy one and it hurts even more!

 

[Elessar]

If the boat sinks, how far can you swim?

boat is unlikely to sink. Fire is the worry. Galadriel of this forum has an immaculately kept and equally well maintained ETAP sailing boat. They are foam filled and unsinkable. Yet he has a liferaft, mounted where it can be quickly accessed.

 

[Elessar]

I would also recomend that you and swmbo do the RYA sea survival course over the winter... it gives you experience of actually using one, and is a good laugh as well. I personally think the sea survival course is the single best course we have taken, and should be mandatory!

absolutely.

take your own lifejackets too and budget for a few replacement cylinders. I deliberately tried mine both with and without crotch straps, so now I can decide whether I need them or not.

By chance I did my sea survival with the atlantic waterbabes - a female rowing crew about to row the atlantic. Made for a nice soft landing in the liferaft, so much nicer than a raft full of bearded old sailors!!

 

[Tranona]

boat is unlikely to sink. Fire is the worry. Galadriel of this forum has an immaculately kept and equally well maintained ETAP sailing boat. They are foam filled and unsinkable. Yet he has a liferaft, mounted where it can be quickly accessed.

Not sure why you worry about fire. Again, no evidence that any yachts have foundered at sea because of fire - in UK waters or involving a UK boat that is.

Plenty (relatively) of incidents involving fire, but all at anchor or in marina and usually caused by defective gas, refuelling petrol or fumes from substances like paint strippers or adhesives.

 

[photodog]

There was a yacht that caught fire and sank off the Isle of Mull a few years ago iirc... older couple.. they had the dink part inflated on the deck.... but still couldnt get it fully ready before they had to get off....

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

I guarantee you don't need a liferaft. Number of rescues from liferafts in the UK in the last 5 years? 2 - just 2. And during those 5 years how many millions of miles were motored/sailed in the UK? You have more chance of winning the lottery than using your raft.

I found your stats very hard to believe so did a quick google search. Took me about three minutes to come up with three rescues from life rafts in the last 5 years around the UK coast. I am pretty confident I could find some more as well.

In June 2010

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga07...s-releases.htm?id=6C76F5F4DE74476B&m=6&y=2010

IN Feb 2008
http://www.rnli.org.uk/rnli_near_you/news/news_detail?articleid=306546

In June 2008
http://www.rnli.org.uk/mob_guardian/mob_rescue

From memory there was also Hooligan V that flipped upside down a couple of February's ago in the English Channel, only a few miles offshore, the 4 survivors spent an hour in the water before they managed to free and inflate the life raft. The owner has been quoting as saying something along the lines of. If we had not got into that life raft the 4 survivors would not be alive today.

 

[Coaster]

Took me about three minutes to come up with three rescues from life rafts in the last 5 years around the UK coast. I am pretty confident I could find some more as well...

None of these involved leisure motor boats.

As I asked in an earlier post - "I wonder how many times a well maintained 30' - 35' motorboat has sunk in UK or French waters and the people on board would not have survived, or did not survive, without a liferaft?"

 

[iangrant]

Yes

"offshore" is out of dinghy range, lose sight of land without one and you may become very nervous.

If it does cut up rough even cross channel and all you have is a dinghy well that's your choice.

Ian

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Not sure why you worry about fire. Again, no evidence that any yachts have foundered at sea because of fire - in UK waters or involving a UK boat that is.

Plenty (relatively) of incidents involving fire, but all at anchor or in marina and usually caused by defective gas, refuelling petrol or fumes from substances like paint strippers or adhesives.

Not wishing to contradict, but there was this one one off Shoreham, and then this one in Southampton Water, and then this one, an F34 based out of Gosport, all of which were discussed here iirc. I'm sure there must be others, but these were the three that immediately sprang to mind.

Cheers
Jimmy