DIY Radar reflectors

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cardinal_mark

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Hi all

In the process of looking for a new radar reflector, I came across an American 'radar forum' where there was a lot of talk about the effectiveness of randomly filling a large plastic container (eg 4 pint milk size) with irregular strips of tin foil, cut in 1.5" strips about 2 - 3" long. Hoist up the mast and hey presto (so they seem to think) you stand out like a super tanker!

Has anyone else come across, tried or have any views on this?


Cheers

Mark
 
errr, do you not think that if it was that easy the reflector manufacturers would be doing it.

Sorry sounds a bit sh1te to me, especially whne a reflector is such an important bit of kit when the fog comes down.

If you want to be seen fit an echo-max or orther good brand or reflector. If you really really must be seen get a SeeMe radar transponder for £500.

Don't buy the tube-type cheap reflectors, they are universally known to be rubbish and little more than a token gesture.

Done. :-)
 
Buy my virgin Echomax radar reflector for £75. Complete with rope loops for easy hoisting. Bought for my last boat and never used. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
yes there was an example when pbo did a radar reflector test, and the bin liner full of crumpled kitchen foil worked as well as the cheepo commercial.

but dont kid yourself. in passive radar reflectors, size matters. you cant reflect back more than hits the reflector in the first place so if you do diy, make it big. then you have to try to make sure the reflection is in a useful direction ie not directly up or down and random strips or crumpled foil wont do that.

in short it will work but not very well. you are not going to match the effectiveness of a properly designed and sized radar reflector with crumpled foil in a bag. mind you, it might be more effective than those small French tubular things.
 
I believe the required standard of reflector is shortly to change, and most of the ones currently available wont meet that standard. So I m pretty sure your bag of foil wont !
The question going about is whether the false sense of safety from having a(poor) reflector is actually more dangerous than the knowledge of not having one at all...
 
I never said I was actually going to do it, I may be daft but not quite that daft! I just wandered if anyone else had come across the idea.


Mark
 
[ QUOTE ]
I believe the required standard of reflector is shortly to change, and most of the ones currently available wont meet that standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is about to change, but then the only reflector on the market at the moment that does pass ISO8729 is the Sea-Me RTE, full report Here PDF download

As to the question. Yes I've thought about it, no I haven't done it, but yes I may give it a go sometime.
 
Sea-me is a good piece of kit, but note it only operates on X Band.

Last week I saw a boat with one of the tubular reflectors mounted on the backstay just above the head of the helm /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Did it some years ago, stuffing an old fender with foil cut to half-wavelength pieces.

We were picked up by the Earl Granville (cross channel ferry) at 7 miles in perfect conditions, as were the two boats in company with me, each sporting an octohedral reflector. But none the less it was confined to the skip, safety does not necessarily come cheaply.
 
I have just renewed my home made reflector. The original dates from 1996. If I had a 30ft yacht I would fit a big Echomax. On my boat the choice is one of those useless tublar things, no reflector at all or a lightweight homemade.

My design is elegantly based upon a 3 litre Coke bottle containing exhibition sign board with foil glued to it and set up in a fashion similar to the insides of a professional reflector. I prefer this to nothing at all when in shipping lanes and long ago decided that it was preferable to the tubular thingies.

One day I should like to do some tests. Just need a friendly yacht with radar who is in the right place at the right time and who has the patience to wait while I disappear into the distance and off his screen - twice.
 
Over on the Wooden Boat Forum, there have been several threads on this. Some of the more knowledgeable said certain width of strips are much more effective as they `vibrate´ and give better echos. Can´t remember the exact size, but might look and get back. The common thought was about packing strips into your mast. Some said they had good results.
Andrew
 
[ QUOTE ]
The question going about is whether the false sense of safety from having a(poor) reflector is actually more dangerous than the knowledge of not having one at all...

[/ QUOTE ]

Reading the Ouzo report it seems a passive radar reflector of any kind on a sailing yacht is shockingly ineffective.
 
[ QUOTE ]
...Last week I saw a boat with one of the tubular reflectors mounted on the backstay just above the head of the helm /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
How high do you think they are on the average motorboat?
 
I must admit I don't have a radar reflector, and never have had one. Mind you I was trained as a bridge watchkeeper on ships with a rather poor radar signature and which rarely operated radar themselves.

I very strongly subscribe to the view that relying on others to see us and then avoid us is a fools policy and that we are far better to rely on our own look out and ability to avoid the situations where being seen is really important.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My design is elegantly based upon a 3 litre Coke bottle containing exhibition sign board with foil glued to it

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, yes. The once-famous 'Blue Peter' polyhedral Luneburg-lens ECM marine confuser device which first appeared in one of the early 1911 copies of Yachting Monthly, now updated and improved by use of cross-shredded multi-crinkle plasticised aluminium foil, from used cat food sachets, and the better-shaped Tesco Diet Lemonade 3-litre bio-deflatable non-returnable container. Note that the 7-page downloadable instructions manual insists on these complex devices being hoisted in the approved manner, as 'inverted' use in the raincatcher position would cause the shredded foil to drop out into the water and attract the attentions of the local MARPOL Police, as well as provide an excellent breeding medium for anopheles mosquitoes. Further, the faint 'whooing' noise made by night breezes blowing across the openings in quiet anchorages is suspected by the RSPB of confusing migrating Bewicks's Swans....

These excellent items of yachting memorabilia can be obtained from the rear entrance of any Tesco Metro, or handmade to order from The Hon Sec, The Old Barfers' Association, PinMill, Suffolk. Enclose an s.a.e. and your open cheque for £355.
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I must admit I don't have a radar reflector, and never have had one. Mind you I was trained as a bridge watchkeeper on ships with a rather poor radar signature and which rarely operated radar themselves.

I very strongly subscribe to the view that relying on others to see us and then avoid us is a fools policy and that we are far better to rely on our own look out and ability to avoid the situations where being seen is really important.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont want to sound like an H&S type or some sort of backroom lawyer, but you are aware, arent you, that you are now legally obliged to fit a reflector if practicable and on a Moody 36 that is undoubtedly the case. Sure there's very little enforcement of this sort of rule (and I bend as many laws as the next man) but in the event of an accident at sea ............

Trying to be helpful!
 
Hi wotayattie, Could you point me in the direction of the regulations regarding the carriage or perhaps display of a radar reflector, so I can see if I comply. In particular, which agency is charged with making and implementation, or are there several, and could you provide details, especially if international regulation differ from national criteria. thanks, sorry to trouble you in the matter! Good sailing,
 
In the UK, yachts under 45ft are free from safety equipment regulations and in theory if you are UK flagged you are subject to UK regs wherever you go - but try telling that to the man in the blue uniform in Europe let alone lower eastern Mongolia (If that has any appropriate water).
 
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