Disposal of flares to become even more difficult.

[Concerto]

From 1st January 2023, HM Coastguard will cease to offer a voluntary, public-facing flare disposal service to private individuals.

Changes to UK rules on disposal of marine flares - Marine Industry News

 

[Stingo]

I know, I know, but isn't the 5th of Nov a good excuse to don a large, leather welding glove and then practice letting off a flare?

 

[Sandy]

From 1st January 2023, HM Coastguard will cease to offer a voluntary, public-facing flare disposal service to private individuals.

I only purchase pyrotechnics from companies that take old ones back.

 

[awol]

I know, I know, but isn't the 5th of Nov a good excuse to don a large, leather welding glove and then practice letting off a flare?

Letting off smokes and parachute flares can be a bit antisocial! Hand-helds are less of a problem but beware the ash.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Wear an extinction rebellion T shirt and tell a policeman that you have them. They will cease to be your problem in moments!

Alternatively take them to a main police station and claim that you found them and are being a good citizen by handing them in. Always worked for me. At my local nick I've done it so many times that they roll their eyes when I turn up with a bag ; "Found more flares in the street, have you Sir?'

 

[capnsensible]

 

[Stemar]

Another nail in the coffin of pyrotechnics for the average cruising boat.

Sure, if you're going offshore, parachute flares have their place, but there are so many other ways to call for help now, that I personally question the need for them. I carry an LED flare, two radios and two mobile phones, which I'm quite happy with for coastal or even cross-channel sailing. The LED flare battery lasts for years and can easily be replaced so, at my age, I don't ever expect to have to buy another, and, better still, if I ever need it, it'll keep going for a couple of hours rather than a couple of minutes.

 

[dunedin]

From 1st January 2023, HM Coastguard will cease to offer a voluntary, public-facing flare disposal service to private individuals.

Changes to UK rules on disposal of marine flares - Marine Industry News

The MCA a held a “consultation“ 18 months ago - think there were roughly four options which included
1). MCA continue to take in expired pyrotechnics occasionaly (ie on specific dates at specific locations
2-4). The MCA washes its hands of this to save money, and hopes for the best
Not sure they ever published the results of the feedback on the consultation, but like most of these “consultations” the answer was a foregone conclusion, MCA withdraws its service and hopes somebody else will solve.
I therefore disposed of most of my pyrotechnic flares this year and bought LED instead

 

[[2574]]

Another nail in the coffin of pyrotechnics for the average cruising boat.

Sure, if you're going offshore, parachute flares have their place, but there are so many other ways to call for help now, that I personally question the need for them. I carry an LED flare, two radios and two mobile phones, which I'm quite happy with for coastal or even cross-channel sailing. The LED flare battery lasts for years and can easily be replaced so, at my age, I don't ever expect to have to buy another, and, better still, if I ever need it, it'll keep going for a couple of hours rather than a couple of minutes.

Likewise. I’velong since ceased buying pyrotechnics. I don’t reckon on buying a problem.

 

[Stingo]

Another nail in the coffin of pyrotechnics for the average cruising boat.

Sure, if you're going offshore, parachute flares have their place, but there are so many other ways to call for help now, that I personally question the need for them. I carry an LED flare, two radios and two mobile phones, which I'm quite happy with for coastal or even cross-channel sailing. The LED flare battery lasts for years and can easily be replaced so, at my age, I don't ever expect to have to buy another, and, better still, if I ever need it, it'll keep going for a couple of hours rather than a couple of minutes.

Yep, and my cooking fat loves chasing the red dot around the room when I occasionally take mine out to test it.

 

[boomerangben]

This is sad news indeed.

having been involved in search and rescue I think the demise of the pyro is a sad thing. Smokes are brilliant by day to identify a yacht amongst others white horses and to locate a person in the water and by night there is nothing brighter than a hand held red, apart from perhaps a hand held white. I’m not sure how well led flares work by day or if they are visible at all through nightvision goggles(red LEDs are invisible to current gen NVIS). And if you do most of your sailing by day, how effective is your fancy LED flare?

PLB/AIS beacon and a day night in pouches on your lifejacket makes a lot of sense to me, especially for MOB.

 

[Sandy]

This is sad news indeed.

having been involved in search and rescue I think the demise of the pyro is a sad thing. Smokes are brilliant by day to identify a yacht amongst others white horses and to locate a person in the water and by night there is nothing brighter than a hand held red, apart from perhaps a hand held white. I’m not sure how well led flares work by day or if they are visible at all through nightvision goggles(red LEDs are invisible to current gen NVIS). And if you do most of your sailing by day, how effective is your fancy LED flare?

PLB/AIS beacon and a day night in pouches on your lifejacket makes a lot of sense to me, especially for MOB.

I'm ex-Mountain Rescue and totally agree with your post. The move to 'electronic' devices is driven by people who have never had to look at the wilderness in a F10 trying desperately to find somebody in time so they don't need to use a body bag. That last kilometre or nautical mile is often the hardest.

 

[dunedin]

I'm ex-Mountain Rescue and totally agree with your post. The move to 'electronic' devices is driven by people who have never had to look at the wilderness in a F10 trying desperately to find somebody in time so they don't need to use a body bag. That last kilometre or nautical mile is often the hardest.

That is precisely the situation that led to development of better devices such the MOB AIS beacons, which have saved lives on RtW races that would most likely otherwise have been lost.
It is clear that VHF, DSC, EPIRB, PLB and MOB AIS have saved a lot of lives. Perhaps money should be spent on them, and lifejackets and life rafts. Mobile phones have in practice also saved lots of lives in real world rescues. Once you have all of the above can decide whether to keep spending on pyrotechnics. But I have put my money into DSC, PLB and MOB AIS

 

[boomerangben]

That is precisely the situation that led to development of better devices such the MOB AIS beacons, which have saved lives on RtW races that would most likely otherwise have been lost.
It is clear that VHF, DSC, EPIRB, PLB and MOB AIS have saved a lot of lives. Perhaps money should be spent on them, and lifejackets and life rafts. Mobile phones have in practice also saved lots of lives in real world rescues. Once you have all of the above can decide whether to keep spending on pyrotechnics. But I have put my money into DSC, PLB and MOB AIS

Modern electronics are great. However consider this, you are using your car satnav to find a house on a row of terrace hoses. You know the postcode and number but where are you looking when you get onto the street, at the door numbers or the satnav? If you know you are looking for a red door on a street full of blue ones……. As Sandy says the last bit can be the hardest. Pyros are brilliant day and night for saving a lot of time to cover the last mile or so and identifying your boat whose name is perhaps written in small letters behind the boarding ladder.

 

[lustyd]

Alternatively take them to a main police station

Might have worked in the old days but most police stations are no longer open to the public and will tell you to call instead.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

From RYA Scotland's Charles Bird, Chair of the Cruising and General Purpose Committee.

https://www.rya.org.uk/news/musings-on-cruising-around-scotland?utm_campaign=Scotland News - October 2022&utm_source=emailCampaign&utm_content=&utm_medium=email

On disposable of flares in Scotland, I didn't know that, anyone know which RNLI stations?

The RNLI have some 8 stations around the country (Scotland) that can receive them, and they have a contract with a company for their storage, transport and disposal. That is why there is not a general arrangement for people to hand in their out of date flares at any and every RNLI/Coastguard station and the impossibility of organising an amnesty at an event such as a Boat Show.

I think the above is bullshit, as I have tried to dispose of flares and the RNLI do not take them, indeed, Trron RNLI state on their FB page: -

How to dispose of Time Expired Pyrotechnics
We are often asked by boat owners what they should do with their out of date flares now that you can no longer just drop them off at your nearest coastguard or RNLI Lifeboat station.
Firstly, it’s an offence to:
• put them in household rubbish, garden waste or public litter bins
• dump them at sea
• leave them anywhere a member of the public could find them
• set them off when its not an emergency
Please do not leave out of date flares at our lifeboat station gates or at the entrance to your local Coastguard station.
Instead, you should contact the following:
• the place you bought them, if they offer a ‘take back’ scheme
• some marinas - a small charge may apply
• some liferaft service stations
If none of these places can assist, contact your local Coastguard Operations Centre (CGOC), who will advise you on how the flares can be disposed of safely. For our local area, contact should be made with Belfast CGOC Tel: 03443 820 037
Our closest disposal site is Girvan Coastguard Station.

On the usefulness of pyros:-

The RNLI and Coastguards strongly advocate that boaters equip themselves with AIS transceivers, PLBs and EPIRBs instead of the old traditional flares. As a fall-back, there are also electronic flares now available............ To reinforce the argument, the Coastguards compared the time taken to pinpoint a mariner in distress using a flare, which depends on nearby vessels or someone watching from the coast (if near enough) to see and report the flare - all of which takes time, and the casualty's position may have changed considerably by the time the Coastguards and RNLI have been alerted. Of course, the flare may go unnoticed or unreported. A PLB or EPIRB, once activated, will alert the authorities within seconds to an emergency and the position of the potential casualty. The track of any vessel linked to the PLB or EPIRB can be monitored by AIS.

They argued their case with a degree of passion born, I suspect, of experience.

 

[boomerangben]

From RYA Scotland's Charles Bird, Chair of the Cruising and General Purpose Committee.

https://www.rya.org.uk/news/musings-on-cruising-around-scotland?utm_campaign=Scotland News - October 2022&utm_source=emailCampaign&utm_content=&utm_medium=email

On disposable of flares in Scotland, I didn't know that, anyone know which RNLI stations?



I think the above is bullshit, as I have tried to dispose of flares and the RNLI do not take them, indeed, Trron RNLI state on their FB page: -



On the usefulness of pyros:-

I do agree that for raising the alarm, modern electronics are brilliant and have first hand experience using homers etc. As pilot who flies over the sea, I personally believe there is still a place for pyros on a boat and also on a lifejacket. Clearly the MCA and RYA have a different view now and times have changed. Like I said. I think it’s sad.

 

[ProMariner]

Can't see myself having flares again unless legally required, it was a real mission to dispose of the last batch.

Remember when public service meant providing a service for the public? I feel old. I remember when the coastguard would provide useful services for the sailor. When the Met Office were a weather forecasting service. Even the UKHO are getting out of the chart game. Whatever will they think of next?

 

[Sandy]

One thing I would like to see is a combined PLB/MOB AIS device. If I go over the side, I do a lot of single handed passages, I want every watch keeper in a radius of five NM to be be made aware that I was in the water and conscious, AND the Coastguard to start a rescue rolling as it very likely that anybody in the water for any length of time is going to hospital with hypothermia and monitor for secondary drowning.

Many years ago on a mountain rescue exercise. I watched a SAR helicopter fly over my group of six people in bright clothing sat on an orange polly bag not once but six times! The crew and our onboard team members had both our OS Grid Ref and we were in radio contact with them, you can imagine the radio chatter on that exercise! The craic in the bar was brilliant.

I will continue to carry pyrotechnics as I am convinced that they assist a rescue attempt in the last mile. A red handheld or smoke works wonders.

 

[awol]

It seems strange to me that a representative of the RYA which itself is part of World Sailing should not support the use of flares, items that are mandated for Cat 4 and above races. Cat 4 races are defined as "Short races, close to shore in relatively warm or protected waters normally held in daylight."