Disillusioned from Bray...

[No Regrets]

Funny isn't it?

On all my years on the Thames, I have never felt unhappy about anything really.

Even the dodgy liveaboards I consider a 'part' of the River, and mostly just people trying to live somewhere, nor broken locks, after all even the Space Shuttle went wrong didn't it?

But the ATYC. Thats depressing....

From what I have seen recently, a sinister organisation or 'Old boys network' of epic proportions, as transparent as a brick wall and user friendly as a broken PC.

The forums visitations are thankfully rare, as each post reinforces my opinion that the ATYC is as nasty as the Labour party or a Transport Union. Plenty of propaganda, but absolutely no coherent sentences of explanation, just excuses and waffle of epic proportions. I'm not going to go to the ATYC dinner dance this year, nor collect the prize we won in the Boat handling, nor the ATYC rally either, I feel so strongly.

Is anybody in the ATYC decent and honest?

Is it just me?

Yours, Disillusioned of Bray.....

 

[alruss]

Sorry, probably a stupid question, what have I missed?

 

[watson1959]

Sorry, probably a stupid question, what have I missed?

+1......go on...spills the beans.......what's all this about?

 

[Brayman]

I'm afraid No Regrets is generalising from a rare visit from ATYC members to this forum and he would perhaps benefit from attending an ATYC meeting, as boring as they are, he would at least see how much work is put in by their committee members. It does appear that they have been woken up by the TMBA and have not covered themselves in glory in trying to defend themselves, but I'd rather see people trying to help the boater rather than doing nothing.

 

[My She]

I'm afraid No Regrets is generalising from a rare visit from ATYC members to this forum and he would perhaps benefit from attending an ATYC meeting, as boring as they are, he would at least see how much work is put in by their committee members. It does appear that they have been woken up by the TMBA and have not covered themselves in glory in trying to defend themselves, but I'd rather see people trying to help the boater rather than doing nothing.

'Fraid I agree with that.

 

[Captain Coochie]

The way i see it is these old boys are on a nice little earner and although they claim that it doesnt pay well it pays for thier boating . Fair enough i suppose but they are in it for themselves now and do the boaty meeting because they have to . At a couple of k a year why not eh .
Thats just me taking a guess at it

 

[Brayman]

The way i see it is these old boys are on a nice little earner and although they claim that it doesnt pay well it pays for thier boating . Fair enough i suppose but they are in it for themselves now and do the boaty meeting because they have to . At a couple of k a year why not eh .
Thats just me taking a guess at it

Surely it's all voluntary?

 

[boatone]

It does appear that they have been woken up by the TMBA and have not covered themselves in glory in trying to defend themselves, but I'd rather see people trying to help the boater rather than doing nothing.

Unless I misinterpret your comments, you seem to be suggesting that, for some reason, the ATYC have need to defend themselves against the TMBA ?

 

[TrueBlue]

I agree - the ATYC , by that I mean a Certain Person (he will always be that to me) and as such we are both anonymous - and on which fact I was attacked me earlier, so on a level basis (? as it seems to be that CP makes all the running.

Start again; the ATYC seems hell bent on confrontation - like a wounded animal - thinks attack is the best form of defence.

I can't see why. ATYC is a grouping of Yacht Clubs and these de facto are geographically based and most have physical premises.That is not convenient for some folks, so they don't join; no reason why they should.

OTOH, TMBA is "up to date" and electronic, thus is capable of being attractive to boaters of all dimensions (as long as they are propelled by some form of "motor"). No fee, no fixed style of dress, minimum set of rules; just a common interest in using the River and getting the best deal from whoever is responsible for managing that waterway.

The trick is to persuade many, many more boaters to join a club or an association. In the first instance it doesn't really matter which...

I'm sorry to say that most boaters are apathetic. Only a tiny number bother to appear on these fora - or for that matter to fora who cater for narrower waterways.

I'm depressed because far too much effort is being spent on attacking TMBA and attempting to exclude it from other groups.

There are differences in approach between the two factions, from where I stand I see the ATYC as being confrontational and attacking EA because it has to implement major cutbacks and ATYC want to protect the status quo regardless of practicality.

I see TMBA as being more practical; trying to ensure that boaters get as best a service as it can, working within whatever restricted resources EA has to have.


My depression would be lifted (somewhat) if both organisations could accept that they differ BUT focus on working together to stop the River declining - which is TMBA's approach.

 

[My She]

Insanity

I'm beginning to think this forum is not for me! I agree with True Blue and wish the two organisations could work together. Such vitriolic slagging-off of each other! Why can't we celebrate the positive in both organisations? Personally I haven't seen TMBA attacked? I think its been a brilliant success so far, but the ATYC does some good work too, doesn't it?! Speaking as a relative new comer to this forum I'm shocked how childish, angry and bitter some of the comments have been. If you don't like how these organisations are run, then go along and make your opposition clear. I've been along to some meetings and yes there's a hierachy but sincere people too. I think the anonymity we are allowed here is a privilege we are abusing. Some of you are aware who is who but the rest of us are struggling to read between the lines - especially if you're new to the forum. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone started to say who they are and stopped hiding behind an avatar esp whilst making personal attacks? Sheila

 

[watson1959]

I'm beginning to think this forum is not for me! I agree with True Blue and wish the two organisations could work together. Such vitriolic slagging-off of each other! Why can't we celebrate the positive in both organisations? Personally I haven't seen TMBA attacked? I think its been a brilliant success so far, but the ATYC does some good work too, doesn't it?! Speaking as a relative new comer to this forum I'm shocked how childish, angry and bitter some of the comments have been. If you don't like how these organisations are run, then go along and make your opposition clear. I've been along to some meetings and yes there's a hierachy but sincere people too. I think the anonymity we are allowed here is a privilege we are abusing. Some of you are aware who is who but the rest of us are struggling to read between the lines - especially if you're new to the forum. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone started to say who they are and stopped hiding behind an avatar esp whilst making personal attacks? Sheila

Sheila: nicely put. I'm a newbie having only discovered these fora earlier in the year when buying my first boat.

I have to say that there are many extremely helpful people in this group when it comes to all things boaty: my naive/innocent questions as a newbie were without exception answered with patience and consideration by well-seasoned boaters and with plenty of humour mixed-in.

However I agree with you: the under-current of subterfuge and long-standing politics/ inter-personal frictions add an unpleasantness that really detracts from the value of the forum. By the way.....if you think it's bad in here: keep well clear of the Lounge

I do just wonder if it's a case of 'The Devil making use of idle hands' as the tone has deteriorated with the arrival of the boating season's end....

Don't give up.....perhaps we could stage a revolution; take over the forum through a metaphorical act of piracy

 

[oldro]

I can see why people stop posting on this Forum.
Although I rarely post on any Forum having the opinion that you should only post when you have something useful to say and not just to spout off - I must comment on this thread.

I have now given up boating due to age and health but I was a member of boat club committee's for 33 years which included approximately 12 years on the ATYC committee as a Vice Chairman. I therefore do not understand what this is all about, especially the post from Cuchilo talking about "a nice little earner".

No Officer receives any payment whatsoever and spends hours attending meetings on behalf of the Association. Personally I attended three different RUGS which entailed a round trip from home of approximately 150 miles 12 times a year. I also attended at various times meetings with the PLA and Envag.

In fact it costs money to be an Officer of the Association and although it is possible to claim expenses I never claimed for phone calls etc, and the only claims were for stationery bought and always substantiated by receipts.

Anything I did was an attempt to put something back into a recreational sport I enjoyed.

I suggest that some people stop knocking the efforts others make to try and help others in their enjoyment.

Having said all this I see no reason to continue to be a member of a Forum that has a developed from somewhere to post about the Thames and the enjoyment of such, to a carping and vicious Forum where posts attack other boaters.

 

[Ramage]

Er, I am a little confused here myself... I do not believe that the TMBA has ever slagged off the ATYC. Certainly Tony (Boatone) is not guilty of anything of the sort.

As for "hiding behind avatars", I am a little unsure who this is intended to mean.

No Regrets is the name of John's boat. As editor of Bray Cruiser News (and now Rear Commodore of Bray Cruiser Club) he is surely known to many on the Thames.

I realise my forum name, Ramage, does not relate to my boat, but the little picture is of a Silver Dragon! I am a committee member with Bray Cruiser Club, and attend ATYC rallies and meetings when shiftwork permits. I am also an active District Explorer Scout Commissioner for Richmond Upon Thames and an Explorer Sea Scout Leader. In addition I am a member of the Thames Scout Cruising Club which is also ATYC affiliated.

Paul

 

[Ramage]

+1......go on...spills the beans.......what's all this about?

I beleive No Regrets is referring in part to past postings by Gibel Tarik and Louis Jankel....

 

[Captain Coochie]

Oh look , another one of them has joined just to shout the odds
No payment and claiming expenses Some people in very trusted public jobs do that aswell , some of them get caught aswell

 

[Ramage]

I can see why people stop posting on this Forum.
Although I rarely post on any Forum having the opinion that you should only post when you have something useful to say and not just to spout off - I must comment on this thread.

I have now given up boating due to age and health but I was a member of boat club committee's for 33 years which included approximately 12 years on the ATYC committee as a Vice Chairman. I therefore do not understand what this is all about, especially the post from Cuchilo talking about "a nice little earner".

No Officer receives any payment whatsoever and spends hours attending meetings on behalf of the Association. Personally I attended three different RUGS which entailed a round trip from home of approximately 150 miles 12 times a year. I also attended at various times meetings with the PLA and Envag.

In fact it costs money to be an Officer of the Association and although it is possible to claim expenses I never claimed for phone calls etc, and the only claims were for stationery bought and always substantiated by receipts.

Anything I did was an attempt to put something back into a recreational sport I enjoyed.

I suggest that some people stop knocking the efforts others make to try and help others in their enjoyment.

Having said all this I see no reason to continue to be a member of a Forum that has a developed from somewhere to post about the Thames and the enjoyment of such, to a carping and vicious Forum where posts attack other boaters.

Thank you for your past efforts.

I believe that some of the frustrations others have expressed about the ATYC have sprung from the apparent attacks against "the new kid on the block" the TMBA.

This is in fact very sad as I do not believe the TMBA is intended to surplant or replace the ATYC. Indeed, as the ATYC themselves point out, an individual boater cannot join the ATYC as it is an association of boat clubs.

I understand TMBA is intended to be able to represent those boaters who are not (and may not wish to be) boat club members, as well as those who are.

I for one want to see ATYC and TMBA at the table with the EA and PLA to represent boaters. I fail to understand why anyone would want to block TMBA attendance at these meetings?

 

[Deefor]

Interesting reading from one and all. I can see the points made by both sides but at the end of day, all I want to do is be on the river .

At the end of the day, do the majority of boaters really give a monkeys as to what goes on at the EA, ATYC and TMBA and what they discuss/argue. All they want to do is to use the river and have a great time

 

[No Regrets]

I object to anybody who accuses me of hiding behind an Avatar or username, as my public profile contains everything but my phone number!

The reality is, even users who don't are we known and regular posters, unlike some of the blatant subterfuge we have seen recently...

The big question the ATYC fails to deal with is WHY are they so against the TMBA? What gives them the right to interfere in our choices in such a way? It's a downright liberty and smacks of elitism and manipulation.

Anybody who doesn't understand clearly doesn't know what I know.

 

[Ramage]

Interesting reading from one and all. I can see the points made by both sides but at the end of day, all I want to do is be on the river .

At the end of the day, do the majority of boaters really give a monkeys as to what goes on at the EA, ATYC and TMBA and what they discuss/argue. All they want to do is to use the river and have a great time

Fair comment, but ATYC and TMBA are both (in their own ways), trying to ensure that the Thames remains a place where we boaters can continue to have a good time despite the problems with funding the management of the river.

 

[alruss]

Sorry.

I am so sorry, I was not my intention to destroy the forum. Not realy understanding what is going on, I still dont, but feel that these differences need to be sorted so that boaters that want representation can have it. Without the muck slinging.