Discoloration of bulkhead in way of stainless steel plate

Hoping when I go to see the boat again and we have a trial sail I can determine what exactly is going on with obvious water ingress.The whole chain plates arrangement takes cap shroud and aft lower .It looks to be bolted down through the deck to a angled plate which is bolted to the main bulkhead which supports the mast step.Will endevour to contact Benetaue to establish what the deck is actually made of,there is an agent in Vigo who hopefully will be helpful.
 
Do you have a more close up photo of the chainplate please?
And what does it's partner on the port side look like for comparison?

Re tapping the deck to see if it is soft, I have found that if you walk gently over it in bare feet, your feet will tell you a lot. It is much easier to notice if the deck is 'soft' compared to if you have shoes on.
 
Bajansailor said:
Do you have a more close up photo of the chainplate please?
And what does it's partner on the port side look like for comparison?

Re tapping the deck to see if it is soft, I have found that if you walk gently over it in bare feet, your feet will tell you a lot. It is much easier to notice if the deck is 'soft' compared to if you have shoes on.
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Similar sign of water ingress,but no delamination of plywood bulkhead
 
On reflection I am going to put this boat aside,it’s really at the limit of my budget and I don’t see the price being dropped for a while.To do a proper repair the boat needs to be out the water with he mast down.Meanwhile will find out the construction of the deck and maybe make an offer next Spring if it’s still for sale.Meanwhile there are other boats but I have to admit not that many in my price range.It’s not my perfect boat as I would have preferred a s keg hung rudder.One thing though is quite difficult being a hard headed surveyor and a romantic would be owner,At the price it’s being sold a proffess survey would probably be a good thing.Anyway thanks for everybody’s input and advice
 
It's not that big a deal IF the water has not penetrated too far into the core such that it can be done without removing a section of the deck of the inside of the boat and even then providing it is not more than say 6" square it can be done from the inside but you would have to peel the headliner back. You also don't need to take her out of the water or take the mast down just secure it with the halyards whilst you do the job. I would cancel the trial sail and go and check the deck for softness and talk to the owner about a joint effort to repair it with a small reduction in price.
 
Wansworth said:
On reflection I am going to put this boat aside,it’s really at the limit of my budget and I don’t see the price being dropped for a while.To do a proper repair the boat needs to be out the water with he mast down.Meanwhile will find out the construction of the deck and maybe make an offer next Spring if it’s still for sale.Meanwhile there are other boats but I have to admit not that many in my price range.It’s not my perfect boat as I would have preferred a s keg hung rudder.One thing though is quite difficult being a hard headed surveyor and a romantic would be owner,At the price it’s being sold a proffess survey would probably be a good thing.Anyway thanks for everybody’s input and advice
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Seems a sensible decision.

I've never heard of anyone regretting not buying a particular boat but I've heard of several that did regret buying the one they did! :D
 
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Wise deferment at this time in your life
( sometimes just articulating this to the vendor can produce a more reflective price too!)

Here what I see in that pic
Starboard side .
1/Marginal plywood web not a full bulkhead , so any degradation should be considered that much more seriously
2/ there appears to be a fibreglass inner moulding to the cabin ceiling , compounded by structural shaping into a flange that comes down onto the part bulkhead..
3/ so deck coring inspection is that much more difficult from underneath
And cutting out a section would be inadvisable to me , with the proviso that I am not familiar with this exact model and manufacturers preferred way of doing things in that decade ..
4/ so , any problems in deck coring requiring remedial stiffening would be done from on deck .
Since the deck is unpainted , those are going to show and show badly .
5/ reducing the boats attractiveness and maybe its cosmetic resale..
6/ the cost of doing the inspection
7/ and the work
8/ x2 for both sides
9/ the time , travel , organising it and loss of nice sailing days
= what’s a price to you at which you might be prepared to take on a possible project , all other parts considered ??

Here’s a thing . Get someone to heave laterally on the lower shroud in toward the mast , at head height , whilst you watch and feel the chainplate /deck joint… some flex a lot more than others ! Flex equals leaks equals soggy bits , even a heavy guy walking in the deck next to the chai plate over the years , drip drip , soak soak , soggy soggier , rust , rustier , bolt wastage

Obviously I am painting The Worst Possible Scensrio for you but isn’t that what you want to safeguard against at this stage of viewing , “ eyes wide open”
 
Blueboatman said:
Wise deferment at this time in your life
( sometimes just articulating this to the vendor can produce a more reflective price too!)

Here what I see in that pic
Starboard side .
1/Marginal plywood web not a full bulkhead , so any degradation should be considered that much more seriously
2/ there appears to be a fibreglass inner moulding to the cabin ceiling , compounded by structural shaping into a flange that comes down onto the part bulkhead..
3/ so deck coring inspection is that much more difficult from underneath
And cutting out a section would be inadvisable to me , with the proviso that I am not familiar with this exact model and manufacturers preferred way of doing things in that decade ..
4/ so , any problems in deck coring requiring remedial stiffening would be done from on deck .
Since the deck is unpainted , those are going to show and show badly .
5/ reducing the boats attractiveness and maybe its cosmetic resale..
6/ the cost of doing the inspection
7/ and the work
8/ x2 for both sides
9/ the time , travel , organising it and loss of nice sailing days
= what’s a price to you at which you might be prepared to take on a possible project , all other parts considered ??

Here’s a thing . Get someone to heave laterally on the lower shroud in toward the mast , at head height , whilst you watch and feel the chainplate /deck joint… some flex a lot more than others ! Flex equals leaks equals soggy bits , even a heavy guy walking in the deck next to the chai plate over the years , drip drip , soak soak , soggy soggier , rust , rustier , bolt wastage

Obviously I am painting The Worst Possible Scensrio for you but isn’t that what you want to safeguard against at this stage of viewing , “ eyes wide open”
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The owner is 80 years old and is in denial of a problem with an incredibley important structural area.
 
The problem is that you are not going to find a 40 year old boat without it needing a little bit of work, the trick is in identifying a boat with just a little bit of work as opposed to a money pit.
The boat in question looks clean and tidy all good pointers and if the deck leak(s) are localised shouldn't be either a bad buy or too much work.
 
I have just had a look at a couple of First 27s for sale and the price seems about right more importantly I think the shroud fitting is straight forward and look perhaps to have a small plate over the through deck but whatever it isn't complicated and if there is significant softening I would expect to be able to detect it around the plate. It should be an easy job just to secure the shrouds to the toe rail and remove or pull the through deck tang to establish how much water penetration there has been. If the owner won't allow that then it would be time to walk. At this price and age you have to act as your own surveyor and that involves a few hours work and prodding about.
 
Yes the price is quite good and the condition good apart from the “problem”I suppose if I was more confident of my skills indeed it would be not too difficult but I really don’t want to have to do a major operation which in all events would all ways worry me that it had been done correctly. I noticed a van in the marina that proclaimed the owners did all manner of grp work,maybe a quote from them would be a way
 
Wansworth said:
Yes the price is quite good and the condition good apart from the “problem”I suppose if I was more confident of my skills indeed it would be not too difficult but I really don’t want to have to do a major operation which in all events would all ways worry me that it had been done correctly. I noticed a van in the marina that proclaimed the owners did all manner of grp work,maybe a quote from them would be a way
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I know we pull each others legs about work but you are selling yourself short, you could do the work easily. And I am afraid no 40 year old boat is going to be immune from ongoing maintenance and work.
One thing no-one has spoken of but you would check out no doubt as part of the sea trial is the engine, that has to be in good condition you don't want to be messing about with that other than oil and filter changes.
 
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