Disaster!!!

[Gin]

I didn't winterise the engine this year, a combination of circumstances and laziness. Perhaps the good side of that is that I have done nothing positive to create the situation which I now face.

I fired up the engine(Bukh DV10ME) in the yard three weeks ago and it ran sweetly and without any problem for 20 minutes.

We launched a week later, when I noticed a little oil in the exhaust. We then motored for 3/4 hour to our mooring and tidied up. When we pumped out in the normal way, there was worrying evidence of oil on the water in the river but as the tide was ebbing fast we had to get ashore or be stranded afloat.

I've been fretting about the evidence for the last two weeks and I went back today to check out the state of play.

The bilge is full of oil and the dipstick is bone dry, so the conclusion is that the contents of the engine has now been evacuated. My engine is hopelessly inaccessible, surrounded by moulding on three sides- one cannot reach to the side or over the top or underneath and the only access to the rear is through a silly little hatch in the cockpit locker, so I cannot see any alternative but to lift the engine out.

Has any other unfortunate suffered a total loss of engine oil to a Bukh in this way and can you say what is the likely cause- I am hoping that a hole in the sump/missing drain plug or a flexible hose failure may be the culprit. My only puzzle is the connection between exhaust delivered oil and sump oil?

Whatever the cause, I was damned lucky to fetch up on my mooring without seizing the engine but I feel a financial hemorrhage coming on! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Edit content:- I shall speak to the very nice folk at Bukh tomorrow, just to see what they may see as the likely causes

 

[savageseadog]

You've probably got a leaking seal, nothing to worry about (after it's been fixed that is) Could be as easy as a loose oil filter.

 

[LittleShip]

Could be as easy as a loose oil filter.

or a frost damaged oil cooler ??

Tom

 

[Anonymous]

It is more than likely that no harm was done /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[VicS]

A seal would not simply leak that much oil in 3/4 hour IMHO. The oil filter could have rusted though if it is the throw away canister type.

I would clean up the leaked oil, refill the sump and run the engine for a short while and try to determine where the oil is coming from.

Is it possible that the oil has leaked from a drain plug while standing idle? happens to old Volvos when the washer corrodes away.

 

[Gin]

I really don't think any harm has been done, in spite of my maintenance negligence- I leave a heater on the boat over winter and it really hasn't been that cold.

The bugger is having to move the engine to find the cause- looks to me like a £700/800 job to find a blown seal or ruptured pipe; I'd just like to be up to speed when the yard tells me this or that!

 

[Gin]

Sadly, the filter is tight- that was my best hope too

 

[roger]

If the engine really is totally inaccessible then you cant lift it out and the yard will have to do some butchery first.
On the other hand it may be possible to access it after unscrewing panels. It's certainly worrth having a try.
As an alternative you could hire an introscope or buy a mirror on a stick and have a look round using a bright light. I suspect a small camera of the sort you use on a computer could be dangled down. You could even lower a camera phone in and make a short video.

 

[smudge837]

hi Gin,

i have a buk dv10sme fitted on mine, (the sail drive one) upon instection last spring i found all my oil in the bilge sump and not in the motor, having gone under motor up the medina. it turned out (after a few choice words, and the odd bump) that the previous owner had fitted a small rubber pipe extension to the drain plug. so it was easy for him to change the oil. over the winter it had perished, (so nice of him to mention this mod when i bought it, this was the delivery trip) after ripping the pipe out and re-fitting a correct drain plug all was well. mine did over heat at the time but no long time damage was done. still have her a year on and running fine. (he say fingers crossed) it is hard to get eye's on the plug on my one, but deft finger work should let you feel if it has been modified. i was informed by bukh in poole that quite a few people have done this but used the wrong type of pipe.

hope this is of some help.
happy sailing.

 

[clyst]

Had the same problem a couple of weeks ago on my DV24 . Have a look at the oil supply pipe to the rockers. You will probable find the steel pipe has corroded . Not cheap to replace but a simple job 'cos its at the front of the engine . Good luck .

 

[Gin]

My engine is surrounded by one- piece mouldings,on three sides, so I cannot easily inspect the engine, nor can I even reach beyond a hand's length behind the upper part of the engine as the bridgedeck moulding prevents access from above.
The only access to the rear of the engine is via a 10" x14" inspection hatch inside the cockpit locker which, once one puts an eye to the hatch blocks any ambient light and then also prevents getting an arm in, so feeling blind is the only way to get to the drain plug and I don't know if I'm sufficiently supple to do that(lots of arthritic damage to major joints and fingers)

On of this season's jobs was to have an inspection hatch cut in the cockpit sole, so that I can reach the stern gland and exhaust elbow and this may be an oportunity to have that work done whilst the engine is out- if indeed it must come out

Thanks for the idea, I shall have a go today when I'm back at the boat, if I cannot see any other obvious rupture(see next reply).

 

[Gin]

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that you may have pointed me in the direction of an easy fix.

I shall inspect that area carefully- the handbook drawings of the engine are insufficiently detailed to identify the precise position of all visible parts accurately and especially oil supply pipes but I am aware, because it's presence makes it damned difficult to fit a 22mm spanner to the pencil anode nut head, that there is a hidden pipe which passes behind the top of the block which I've always taken to be an oil supply pipe(it feels as though its small diameter, say 4mm OD, which I've assumed to be copper).

This pipe has to be eased gently away from said nut head, to fit an open ended spanner(it's so tight for space that the ring-end won't go on)- and this has always worried me.

The only thing I did to the engine after doing a test run in the yard the week before launch was to remove this nut to inspect the pencil anode and then replace it, so I could have disturbed and damaged that pipe and I wouldn't have been aware of such damage through it being out of sight.

Did you get oil sprayed over the top part of your engine from your split pipe? I haven't- there's no evidence of oil except a thin film on the face of the flywheel and in the bilge of course


As I said----- fingers crossed!!

Many thanks

 

[clyst]

Just looked at a 10 this morning and the pipe is at the back and not in the front like the 24 . Oil was everywhere when mine burst the jet was hiting the rear of the flywheel . If the rupture is at the bottom of the "L" of the pipe then the oil will go directly into the bilge . Unfortunately its a steel pipe . The banjo end fittings are only soldered on and if I had enough time I would have made one myself from copper pipe and saved myself a packet .

 

[Gin]

I spoke to the manufacturers this morning and they said that commonly there are 3 sources of such leaks

1. Loose oil filter (checked and will do so again)
2. Oil filter not seated properly (no oil seen on fingers when wiped around the base of the fitting- check again)
3. Corroded oil supply pipe from oil pump to rocker housing
(in answer to my question "Wouldn't I see oil had been sprayed all around?" Answer:- "If corrosion/split happened at union with oil pump it would have dumped straight into the bilge"

So, as you and they have said the same thing, I'm even more hopeful.

As a result I've now booked the boat into Hoo Marina(it usually lives on fore and aft trots in the river) from tomorrow for a few days and the Club launch will push me in there on tomorrow afternoon's tide.

Then the plan is to remove the flywheel to gain enough access, I hope, to the oil pump/supply pipe; first I might just put a bit more oil in the engine and turn it over a few times to see if I can spot the source of the leak.

I'll update this thread when I know more, as others may be interested

 

[Gin]

As promised an update, sadly an interim one as the solution has yet to be found.

Due to the inaccessibility problem, I've now removed the flywheel, alternator and starter motor- now with a light, a mirror and a bit of bending and stooping I can see the banjo double union at the oil pump end - very corroded and it must be replaced, but no sign of oil- I can also view the oil supply pipe for about 1/3rd of its length but nowhere, from the union to loss of view is there a sign of an oil leakl.

Also with the flywheel out of the way I can reach under the engine and feel that the drain plug nut is original and firmly in place.

The only trace of any oil is a light mist on the face of the block where the head and block meet- hardly enough to account for total oil loss and no evidence of oil trails down the engine.

Also there is a suspicious coating of oil on the engine bay moulding right underneath the oil filter (you will remember that this filter has been in place, untouched since about this time last year). It could just be that the leak is here but as there appears to be oil on the underside of the sump(by feel) it may be a sump gasket.

I can't see any way of avoiding lifitng the engine out, so it looks like I shall have to hand it over to the yard. As I've partially dismantled the engine the extracting of it into the saloon and then out through the companionway should be relatively easy with their facilities, so I hope this will reflect in a somewhat reduced bill??

 

[oldharry]

To lose all the oil in 3/4 hour suggests the leak is in a pressurised part of the system, and not a seal or gasket failure. If it is jetting out under pressure rather than dribbling it could easily not get on anything else. suggest you sort the corroded banjo and run it up before going to the cost of engine out.

Also, when did you change the oil filter? I had a Bukh filter rust through in 12 months (a coolant leak was dripping on to it). That took me some time to track down as like yours it just squirted the oil clear of everything and straight into the bilge.

 

[mhouse]

I have had a canister type filter fail on the crimped joint. It felt tight but oil poured out .Might be worth replacing the filter anyway.
Hope you find an easy fix.

 

[Gin]

Good points you raise.
The filter was last changed Spring '07 and when I took it off this Wednesday it looked sound enough.
Even though I can see the corroded banjo it's going to be a tricky job releasing it without exerting a lot of strain on the pump for even now I can only get one hand and a spanner into the crevice- it really is that tight. In fact had I not removed the starter motor and alternator I might not have spotted that the filter seal had remained behind on the housing which could have puzzled me when fitting the new filter(not yet done) as this too has to be done by feel- it is only possible to view the top two inches of the aft edge of the filter when all the gear is in place.

 

[Gin]

Banjo/oil supply pipe removed examined and apart from surface corrosion on banjo all was in surpisingly good nick and reassembled.

The boat is going to be booked in to the yard for the week after next which gives me one last opportunity during the coming week.

So having turned over the engine by hand and having thus been satisfied that there is no binding/screaching/knocking or undue resistance to indicate internal damage, I shall reassemble the components, fill the sump half full and fire up the engine and try to spot where the oil is exiting the engine.

If I'm lucky it still may be a repairable job in situ, but if not then into the yard it goes. I think I've little to lose with this plan?

 

[deffie]

What about all the environmental danger with all these leaky old engines ? IS
IT time to introduce a MOT for yachties who only fix things when they break? There are some good books on the subject surely, Pat Manley comes to mind.
Deffie (non-boat owner and with no aspirations that way, but owner of two sailing dinghies which occasionally go on the sea.)