Dinghy roller-headsail

Greenheart

Greenheart

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
10,384
Visit site
Sorry folks, I doubt it's a full six weeks since I asked about this, but I can't find the thread, or remember the replies.

A recent idle sail showed me that the Osprey points remarkably well under genoa alone, even beating. In the interim before I'm able to obtain the parts/expertise needed to put a reef in the mainsail, I'm wondering again about a roller for the genny, as something that'd help to make sail adjustments, landing, launching and shorthanding as easy and pleasant in use as a Jaguar autobox.

Of course there are kits, but they're disagreeably close to £300.

Pared down to basics, how much of the upper & lower spinners, solid-luff component and drum can I hobble together with bits and pieces and reasonable sense?
 
You don't need a solid foil if the sail has a wire luff, as many older dinghy sails do. Just a swivel at the top, and a drum at the bottom, both shackled onto wire eyes built into the sail. This is how the jib on Kindred Spirit worked. As Lakesailor says, it's a furler only - you can't expect it to work part-rolled - but that's quite common on a dinghy.

Pete
 
dancrane said:
Sorry folks, I doubt it's a full six weeks since I asked about this, but I can't find the thread, or remember the replies.

A recent idle sail showed me that the Osprey points remarkably well under genoa alone, even beating. In the interim before I'm able to obtain the parts/expertise needed to put a reef in the mainsail, I'm wondering again about a roller for the genny, as something that'd help to make sail adjustments, landing, launching and shorthanding as easy and pleasant in use as a Jaguar autobox.

Of course there are kits, but they're disagreeably close to £300.

Pared down to basics, how much of the upper & lower spinners, solid-luff component and drum can I hobble together with bits and pieces and reasonable sense?
Click to expand...

All you need is Top swivel, Bottom Drum and a furling line led back to a cleat ofsome sort. One of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DINGHY-SP...UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing&hash=item2ec72ff1cf, ok for up to 100sqft sail. No need for solid luff foil, sail wire luff is sufficient. Sorted for £85.

Your old threadis here http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...y-could-this-be-arranged-using-DIY&highlight=
 
Last edited:
Tam Lin said:
Hi Dan,
This head swivel has been kicking round my shed for several weeks now and I have been wondering what to do with it. It is actually in better nick than it seems in the close up photo. I can't see that I will ever use it so it's yours if you want it.

View attachment 33745
Click to expand...

If you take that apart to clean it, a large number of very small balls will drop out and roll under the fridge.
I had one on my old 505.
 
On a lot of small craft you can use a continuous line so you don't have any loose rope tails. Rather than the line being wrapped around and around the drum, you run around the drum and back around a pulley secured and tensioned with shockcord, and then back to the drum so the rope is 1 continuous piece. You just run it along the foredeck back to the mast.
 
Hell. We're trying to stop him complicating things. Don't start suggesting Rolls Royce ideas.

When the sail is out the line is short and made off to a cleat or similar. When it's furled just coil the line and hang it on the cleat.
 
Lakesailor said:
Hell. We're trying to stop him complicating things. Don't start suggesting Rolls Royce ideas.

When the sail is out the line is short and made off to a cleat or similar. When it's furled just coil the line and hang it on the cleat.
Click to expand...

On a dinghy like an Osprey surely you would not consider anything less than an electrically powered hydraulic reefing system linked to a wireless wind speed monitor and a GPS
 
VicS said:
On a dinghy like an Osprey surely you would not consider anything less than an electrically powered hydraulic reefing system linked to a wireless wind speed monitor and a GPS
Click to expand...

+1 That's what we did to our Laser 2000 and it worked a treat. I wouldn't dream of heading out in any dinghy, let alone an Osprey, without it.
 
Thank you gentlemen, for these considered/humorous thoughts. Tam Lin, that's a very attractive offer which I'll look into shortly.

You may only have clicked-in here with a helpful thought about furlers, but are you ready for some bleak, honest reflections which I'll probably edit in the morning?

I've had a rather wearing evening - launched alone, rowed to meet SWMBO elsewhere, picked her up, then set only the genoa so she wouldn't squeal in constant terror...then something infuriating happened to the sail - it somehow tied itself round the forestay, so the best we could do was make it back to the beach.

Then the line that holds the rudder down, snapped...so I crawled onto the rear deck to lock it down with the pivot nut...and the rear deck cracked under my weight.

Eventually I dropped SWMBO off and rowed back to the club...and in the time that took, I found I'd taken on at least 40 litres of water through the leaky self-bailers.

Sometimes it all feels like very hard work.

I know I can't expect self-bailers to function at low speed, or to seal shut with old gaskets...and I can't blame this large, fairly heavy boat for being an effort ashore and a bit wayward when launching & landing...and it's foolish to complain that SWMBO & I can't control the full rig of a boat originally designed for a three-man crew...

...and of course, at this age, certain bits are bound to be brittle. It's irritating though; I had planned a weekend trip with a mate, and now I haven't the confidence to go ahead with it. In fact, as I lugged the Osp up the hill exhaustedly, I was eyeing the Europe singlehanders covetously. Nice little boats... :rolleyes:

But I still reckon reefing the Osprey is the key. As I see it, the wind is the accelerator and the sail area we select is the transmission. If the sails are smaller...well, how fast can any vehicle go in second or third gear?

I'll be happy to regard a roller-headstay as being for furling only - people have said the boat won't tack easily when sailed without the genoa, but a roller will allow it to come out easily to pull the head round if she's ever caught between stays.

Meanwhile, I need a deep reef in the mainsail, or I need a different boat. SWMBO is intensely nervous. She seems unable to shift her position when it matters, doesn't recognise the effect of pulling ropes (so she never knows when to) and if the boat heels 5º or has to climb a wave, she shrieks as if she'd been groped in a dark cinema.

I need to depower the boat so that I can sail it alone...then we (or just I) can get used to its available power, when we're properly used to her sailing characteristics.

Sorry for the glumness. This time tomorrow I'll be on top of the world again. :)
 
It is always going to be difficult instilling confidence in a nervous novice when you're still learning the ropes or getting used to a new boat that you're struggling to handle. I know, I put off a novice or two in an old 14 as I struggled and things broke

Can you get the main flat? old sails that are too full will be far more difficult to manage.
Put an eyelet 8" above the clew and take the outhaul there works like a flattener reef, lifts the boom nicely as well.
With the Cunningham on really tight you should be able to get a flat main, or get the fullness of the main reduced by re cutting the luff and re stitching bolt rope.
You don't need self bailers, seal them up and chop a plastic milk bottle off leaving the handle to use as a bailer.
Get an old main off a smaller boat like an enteprise/wayfarer/420 maybe to get going with.
Find a young crew with no fear who likes swimming and go out and get used to the boat before you take a novice or partner.
Where are you? not near plymouth? I could take you out and scare you so you know what it feels like for her?

Wooden old boats will always break and need things fixing (I had an old Merlin for a number of years)
 
Sincere thanks, Neil! These are all exactly what I wanted to hear.

My mainsail already has upper and lower cringles at the clew and tack - probably 8" apart...can this be coincidence, or was your wisdom shared by a previous owner?

View attachment 33766

Being honest, I must confess the main looks much better in that early photo than since I've actually been sailing. Not sure why, but the main doesn't want to haul all the way to the masthead now, it stops about ten inches short. I've started using Holt silicon/PTFE which eases progress up the track, but it stops well short of the top.

Certainly I can secure the upper clew eyelet close to the boom and tighten the cunningham...a higher boom would be just as welcome as a flatter sail.

Re. the bailers...It'd be such a pleasure to get busy with the mastic. The other day SWMBO and I sat on the floor, enjoying being able to lean back in the sun...

...but our backsides were drenched. If the self-bailers were in perfect condition, I'd gladly fit new gaskets, but I doubt mine can be put right so easily. In the aerial shots of an identical Mk 2 Osp from Canada, no bailers are visible in the floor, and the boat doesn't have the transom flaps which have been crudely retrofitted to mine...


...so I guess my bailers were added as a luxury, whose redundancy won't hurt the boat. Ah, a dry floor...that'll be luxury. :) I've got the milk-carton-scoop, too.

Minn, of this forum, offered me a very old Firefly mainsail, free...but I'm not sure a saggy sail will really profit the Osprey in conditions when I'd want a small, flat main.

Thanks for the offer of a terror-ride; Plymouth isn't nearby, (I'm almost glad to say!) but I was introduced to a newcomer at my club yesterday, who'd like to crew...

...the commodore's wife mentioned mischievously that he's just become a lifeguard, if that should be necessary! Whatever...he can't be less intuitive than SWMBO.

Thanks for mentioning the inevitability of boat-bits breaking...mine's actually GRP, but I'm always aware that she's creaky and brittle. The rudder especially, although chunks of keelband keep dropping off, too. I'm handy enough now with the resin & tape for minor repairs, but I dread a big 'un opening up whilst at sea. :eek:
 
Are you emotionally attached to the Osprey? If not then why not consider spending a few hundred on a mirror dinghy. You can get one in good condition which, hopefully won't break and it won't frighten SWMBO. You could sail her by yourself and sell her for the same price as you paid for her. Just a thought!
 
If you have read the whole saga Dan says he has had slow dinghies before but wants a fast dinghy he can cruise.
Everything he posts convinces me he has talked himself into believing he has bought a death-machine and is doing everything he can to mitigate the risk of a capsize.
The wet floor is a fact of life. Really for what he is telling us about and his wife's level of confidence he would be better with a clinker dinghy like I used to have.
Not too fast (but would manage 5.5 knots in a stiff breeze). Pretty dry. Pretty to look at. You could walk around without capsizing.
If that's a bit slow there are loads of dinghies in the middle ground that would be a better choice. Dinghies are pretty cheap at the moment.
 
Lakesailor said:
If you have read the whole saga Dan says he has had slow dinghies before but wants a fast dinghy he can cruise.
Everything he posts convinces me he has talked himself into believing he has bought a death-machine and is doing everything he can to mitigate the risk of a capsize...what he is telling us about his wife's level of confidence he would be better with a clinker dinghy like I used to have...You could walk around without capsizing.
If that's a bit slow there are loads of dinghies in the middle ground that would be a better choice. Dinghies are pretty cheap at the moment.
Click to expand...

Perfectly true and all good sense, thank you Lakey. I really can't judge whether, if I'd found a Wayfarer instead (unlikely, as the cheapest ones are thrice the price I paid for the Osprey) I'd now be kicking myself for choosing sloth & stability over fast fun. Probably not though.

Tam Lin said:
...why not consider spending a few hundred on a mirror dinghy. You can get one in good condition which, hopefully won't break and it won't frighten SWMBO. You could sail her by yourself and sell her for the same price as you paid for her. Just a thought!
Click to expand...

A good thought, although I'd specifically searched the bigger designs, having grown frustrated with what I felt was over-simplicity in littler boats! Also, the Osp was in the humble price category you describe, and now, finding a buyer for her might prove much harder than for more popular classes. Even with my loonyjacks fitted. :rolleyes:

Actually, whilst rowing half a mile against wind & tide last evening, I found myself keeping up easily with a Mirror being sailed by a couple of kids. Possibly they were clueless, but I was reminded that the very little classes aren't particularly rewarding under sail...although the shallow draft would be nice! (My Osprey draws 4'6" :eek:).

I still like the idea of a quickish singlehander as a boat I'd be totally at home in almost at once (maybe not the Contender!), but which of the singlehanded classes offer dry stowage and the nice generous dimensions of the big two-handers? None I can think of; the pretty little Europe is definitely a drip-dry, short-distance boat.

That said, considering how ruddy big the Osprey is, there isn't a great deal of comfortable sitting area in her. I realise she wasn't designed for transporting leisurely ladies on pink-gin/cucumber sandwich trips, but SWMBO (who isn't very large) can't easily sit on the floor ahead of the thwart, and the boat heels violently if one of us gets up on a side-deck in a light wind. I crouch uncomfortably amidships under the boom, or sit in a puddle. Not great...

Realistically, I think a smaller main, a roller genoa and a few hours' work on new cracks and old bailers, will return me to usual enthusiasm. Unfortunately the end of each month is my busiest time, so I'll have to hope this weather is here to stay. :D
 
Lakesailor said:
Barton. But you can't use it as a reefer. It's a furler. try this thread http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...y-Style-Jib-Furler&highlight=furling+headsail
Click to expand...

Conventional wisdom says the barton gear is a furler only.

But I have that on my little boat, and I have tried it, and it does indeed seem to work as a reefer. Yes I'll admit the sail does not set very well (but people with proper reefers say that as well) but it works, and nothing broke.

Anyway, reading this thread, I can't help thinking the OP would be better off with a small cruiser like mine, or one of the many others built in the 1970's and 80's and available quite cheap. I can, and do sail mine single handed, but it's nice to have company as well, and I have yet to get wet in her (except from rain)
 
ProDave said:
Anyway, reading this thread, I can't help thinking the OP would be better off with a small cruiser like mine, or one of the many others built in the 1970's and 80's and available quite cheap.
Click to expand...

There's someone on the forsale forum, a non-sailor who has found himself in possession of a small cruiser abandoned by a departing tenant. As soon as I saw it I thought of Dan :)

EDIT: He's now offered it for sale for £300. Sadly no trailer - I wonder if it would fit on the Osprey's? Also no indication where in the country he is...

Pete
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top