Dinghies and powerboats

[Alastairdent]

I've briefly looked at colregs. But they are specific enough for this situation:

Dinghies engaged in race, on river (100ft river width). 50ft powered barge (non-commercial) needs to pass through dinghy fleet.

Common sense says that the barge slows down, maintains a slow direct course. Dinghies keep out of the way (assuming ample wind for dinghies it maintain way and steerage).

But what's the law?

 

[Evadne]

I suspect you will have to ask a lawyer.

I think that they are quite clear for most purposes, and I've always thought that the bit where a stand-on vessel should maintain her course includes not tacking to turn onto a collision course unless you've run out of water, but if you want to get picky, remember that a vessel constrained by its draught should be flying a daymark. Also that the rules about narrow channels do not override the power gives way to sail rule(s), and both vessels should maneuver to avoid a collision where appropriate, if it gets to a close quarters situation.

 

[Alastairdent]

Re: I suspect you will have to ask a lawyer.

I thought that, where the larger vessel is constrained by maneuverability, they should stand on?

Also, isn't the onus on both vessels to maneuver so as to avoid chance of collision? I mean, a dinghy shouldn't tack across the bows of another vessel, should it?

 

[FlyingSpud]

A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway is obliged to keep "as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable." A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel must not to impede the passage of a vessel "which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

You must not cross a narrow channel or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway, ie you should take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel.

Seems clear enough to me. The Dinghy keeps out of the way, not only because the rules say so, but if there is a collision, your pride and joy is going to sink /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Alastairdent]

FlyingSpud, that's pretty much what I thought. Unfortunately, the local dinghy club has a habit of tacking across my bows.

I used to be a member of that club, and I *know* that, when there is plenty of wind, the dinghies can turn on a sixpence. I can't - 18 ton, 50ft of flatbottom barge, coming up to a bridge, is pretty constrained to a specific channel.

 

[KevB]

Depends if the dinghies are leaving a marked channel because if they are, when they re enter (unless they are entering at the start of the channel) they have to give way to anything already in the channel. No?

 

[Alastairdent]

No marked channels - it's on a river, 'bout 100ft across at this point.

Added to that, just after where they race, there is a bridge, with a 20ft central pier.

 

[KevB]

It's been said before on here but I am amazed that the clubs get away with having their racing marks in the most inconsiderate places. I have actually seen in Chichester harbour the start line stretching from one side of the navigable water to the other with the whole width of the channel taken up by boats tacking backwards and forwards blocking the whole channel. Absolutely amazing.

 

[Thistle]

All sounds clear enough to me - dinghies stay well clear. You obviously appreciate things from their point of view but can they see things from your viewpoint? I wonder if inviting a few of the sailors and race officers onto your barge for a trip through their racing fleet would be an eye-opener for them and help them to understand why the rules say they must keep clear?

As we've seen in other threads (eg to do with speed limits) where the reasons for rules are not understood some may choose to ignore them; the converse should also be true.

 

[fireball]

I think you'll find in Chichester harbour it has been requested (or instructed) that clubs do NOT use the whole width of the channel for starting lines.

the obvious exceptions to this are clubs where they have a narrow channel to start with and have fixed posts marking the start line - changing to bouyed starts across half the channel would interfere with normal traffic!

 

[TheBoatman]

Don't be silly,,,the're racing,, which means the colregs don't apply to them. The least our barge owner should have done was to consider either running up the bank or into the bridge, so as not to spoil the dinghy racers line to the next mark after all a forced change of direction caused by the inconsiderate barge skipper could have cost the dinghy a valuable place on the finishing line /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Alastairdent]

I think it is myth, perpetuated by all dinghy sailors, that "power gives way to sail" in all circumstances.

Common sense does not apply, particularly if they are laser sailers.

 

[andy_wilson]

Definitive answer...

Periodic application of 'I am unsure of your intention' should do the trick.

 

[awol]

... of course Rule 1(a) may apply - river is probably conected to high seas but is it navigable by seagoing vessels?

 

[PhilipH]

Re: I suspect you will have to ask a lawyer.

are you sure about this? When the HSS (high speed catamaran ferry) had to do an emergency stop in the marked channel in Belfast Lough the Squib sailor who caused this very nearly got prosecuted.

 

[cruisingsam]

Re: I suspect you will have to ask a lawyer.

that would be because of the local NTM, same as we have in Dun Laoghaire ie the HSS has priority over everyone