Different sized boats on one mooring buoy

[kcrane]

Talking of first world problems...

During the summer I have a half-formed plan to take several different groups of guests to Salcombe and Fowey, both places where I pick up mooring buoys. The harbour masters sometimes raft you up if they are busy and try to keep similar types and sizes of boats together.

What I want to do is moor the 8m Rodman alongside the 15m Princess, the Rodman for day trips, anchoring just off beaches, mackerel fishing trips etc.

I planned to positioning the Rodman towards the back of the Princess, bathing platforms lined up, with only a loose line from Rodman to the buoy. I suspect getting from one to the other may not be as easy as it is in my mind, but there will be two dinghies if needed.

Assuming lots of fendering, am I heading for a fall, is it going to be a problem?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Talking of first world problems...

During the summer I have a half-formed plan to take several different groups of guests to Salcombe and Fowey, both places where I pick up mooring buoys. The harbour masters sometimes raft you up if they are busy and try to keep similar types and sizes of boats together.

What I want to do is moor the 8m Rodman alongside the 15m Princess, the Rodman for day trips, anchoring just off beaches, mackerel fishing trips etc.

I planned to positioning the Rodman towards the back of the Princess, bathing platforms lined up, with only a loose line from Rodman to the buoy. I suspect getting from one to the other may not be as easy as it is in my mind, but there will be two dinghies if needed.

Assuming lots of fendering, am I heading for a fall, is it going to be a problem?

Why even bother with the line from the Rodman to the buoy, if it is just going to be a loose line? Why not just raft directly to the Princess? You'll just want decent fendering, as you suggest - I'd favour ball fenders if you have them, to make sure the boats don't collide if/when they roll from beam wash.

In terms of lining them up, wouldn't it be easier to just climb over rails at some convenient (same-freeboard) point, rather than trying to make your way from one platform to the other (if that's what you meant)? In other words - I'd line them up in some position that gives you the safest/easiest transfer point, rather than trying to get the sterns nicely aligned.

All sounds very doable, and not hard though, provided the hm doesn't then stick another boat outside the Rodman.

 

[Firefly625]

Why even bother with the line from the Rodman to the buoy, if it is just going to be a loose line? Why not just raft directly to the Princess? You'll just want decent fendering, as you suggest - I'd favour ball fenders if you have them, to make sure the boats don't collide if/when they roll from beam wash.

In terms of lining them up, wouldn't it be easier to just climb over rails at some convenient (same-freeboard) point, rather than trying to make your way from one platform to the other (if that's what you meant)? In other words - I'd line them up in some position that gives you the safest/easiest transfer point, rather than trying to get the sterns nicely aligned.

All sounds very doable, and not hard though, provided the hm doesn't then stick another boat outside the Rodman.

+1, raft the rodman to Princess.... or install some really big davits?!

 

[kcrane]

Why even bother with the line from the Rodman to the buoy, if it is just going to be a loose line? Why not just raft directly to the Princess? You'll just want decent fendering, as you suggest - I'd favour ball fenders if you have them, to make sure the boats don't collide if/when they roll from beam wash.

In terms of lining them up, wouldn't it be easier to just climb over rails at some convenient (same-freeboard) point, rather than trying to make your way from one platform to the other (if that's what you meant)? In other words - I'd line them up in some position that gives you the safest/easiest transfer point, rather than trying to get the sterns nicely aligned.

All sounds very doable, and not hard though, provided the hm doesn't then stick another boat outside the Rodman.

Good points. In my head I had assumed the platforms would be close enough to step from one to the other, both boats being fairly 'rectangular' in plan at the stern. Now I'm not so sure, but sensible thing would be to try it sat in Sutton.

I agree on the line to the buoy. I usually use two lines to the mooring from the bow of the Princess, 14mm line if I remember. They get twisted as the boat swings with the current, so a third line might make that worse and add little.

Salcombe HM know us. A nice young man told us we are his favourite visitor and I can't imagine he would say that to everyone. I think we can agree with them that any rafters go on the other side of the Princess and have their own lines to the buoy. We try and avoid bank holidays etc. so rarely there when it is packed, though July/August are always busy.

 

[kcrane]

+1, raft the rodman to Princess.... or install some really big davits?!

haha, only need to hold 6 tonnes

 

[jfm]

All sounds very doable with obvious things like decent fenders and spring lines. I think you're dead right to line up the transoms /swim platforms. One word of caution is that if you get beam-on waves and the two boats roll, they will often roll out of sync and want to smash into each other. Gets quite alarming. I doubt you'll get such roll inside Salcombe though. (FWIW I always put my stabs on when rafted in rolly conditions - you're better having one stabbed boat and the other not stabbed, than 2 unstabbed boats. There's no chance of fins hitting neighbour's hull)

Pictures below show transoms lined up. Much better for guests to circulate this way

 

[kcrane]

Those photos are pretty much exactly what I expect the Princess/Rodman combo to look like in Salcombe in June. I won't bother taking any photos, I'll use yours as being a 'close enough' image to all intents and purposes

 

[Seastoke]

I would strugle to captain both boats ,if swimbo steering one let her do the rody lol.

 

[gjgm]

Salcombe HM know us. A nice young man told us we are his favourite visitor and I can't imagine he would say that to everyone.
.

I think he said most frequent visitor when I mentioned you, but seemed quite happy when he got the cash machine out and I said..oh, but I am with him

 

[kcrane]

I think he said most frequent visitor when I mentioned you, but seemed quite happy when he got the cash machine out and I said..oh, but I am with him

That would explain the Xmas card from Salcombe HM and your access to the best mooring, IIRC

 

[kcrane]

I would strugle to captain both boats ,if swimbo steering one let her do the rody lol.

You are looking for trouble

 

[Hurricane]

We raft up quite a bit - just like in JFM's post
But you have to make an assessment on each individual situation.
JOHN100156 rafted up against us and a yachtie last year and it was immediately evident that it wasn't going to work.
So he then anchored a few yards away and "tendered" across to the party.
It wasn't particularly rough either - it just didn't work - the lines that we use were "tugging" at each other - it just wasn't pleasant.

That isn't to say that we don't do it, on the contrary, we raft a lot - with JW being the boat with the anchor.

Here are a few pics - the first one shows both boats on buoys - just pulled together - maybe a possibility for Salcombe?.

 

[kcrane]

Mike, I can't really tell from the photo, could you move from platform to platform without jumping over?

 

[Hurricane]

Mike, I can't really tell from the photo, could you move from platform to platform without jumping over?

It depends on the boats - here are two F43s together - probably easier than climbing over the cockpit rails

This is a Predator rafted up against a Princess - so, if positioned correctly, you can cross easily using the bathing platforms.

I thought I'd pop this one in as well.
It shows the way across the cockpit rails can be a bit of a climb - but not impossible.
I'm always worried about people bashing their head on JW's Flybridge Cockpit overhang

Be careful when attaching to any ground tackle - or your own anchor.
Don't just let the windlass take the load - you will knacker its gearbox.
Even on a light wind day, these four boats put a considerable load on the single chain.

Maybe rig a bridle like this.

 

[jfm]

K, crossing via the swim platforms is much easier than it perhaps looks in the pictures and crossing via side decks is more difficult than you'd think, and potentially dangerous, imho. In the pic below swim platform jumping was easy and people were doing it all day, despite the quite large gap the photos indicate and the ball fender. Something to grab onto (rail or Williams in this pic) makes it easier for people to jump across too

The "danger" comes from the fact that if two tall boats, esp flybridges with the side deck overhangs that Hurricane and I have, were to roll unexpectedly heavily, there is a potential nip point for a head or a body. Highly unlikely, but so severe a thing that I just wouldn't want any chance of it catching people out

I'd never rig an anchor bridle but that's a whole nuther topic!

 

[Hurricane]

I'd never rig an anchor bridle but that's a whole nuther topic!

Oh - maybe you could start another thread - I'd like to know your reasons.

 

[kcrane]

OP Notice: Permission granted for thread drift

 

[John100156]

In #12 my F43 is the second one in, on that day all boats rafted well despite differing size. As Mike said, it was quite different when we tried to raft a sailing yacht sandwich that had already successfully rafted to the Princess, we came in just fine and having had two lines connected and lots of able hands on the boats, the roll around very different centers of gravity didn't work very well and the SY skipper was worried about the strain on his port quarter cleat - so we simply slipped-off sideways and anchored off. With rafting, I suppose the important thing to remember is that all skippers must be completely happy, if in doubt, move out, anchor off and enjoy the good company!

We do raft up a lot when in Sant Carles, the holding is very good in the lagoon......

 

[jfm]

OP Notice: Permission granted for thread drift

My thinking on bridles, and it's no more than my personal view so each to their own, is that bridles increase the risk of delay escaping an anchorage.

The only problems I expect in anchorages involve a need to get the chain in and maybe get hell out of there. Even if the anchor slips but you want to stay in the anchorage, you need to wind it in first. All these things only happen on occasions of "stress" and high wind. My view is that the bridle (like 2 x anchors) puts the retrieval more at risk of a foul up of some sort. I imagine a situation with a strong wind, and the experienced crew must do other things, and a friend "helps" with the anchor, but jams it. Remember this can all happen with no fault on your part: eg busy anchorage with several upwind boats slipping on their anchors in a sudden strong wind. You just want to get out of there, which means getting your anchor up near the surface asap. I just want to eliminate the risk of snags/delays, and my personal view (it's only that) is that snubbers and twin anchors are sources of snagging and delay

I'm happy engineering wise for the anchor winch to take the load, despite bar room deckie talk that it is bad for the winch. And I have a chain lock device to take the weight off the winch, but it operates as a "non return valve" so it allows you to winch the chain in but not let it out

So, no big deal at all. All this is nothing more than my personal preference and my habit always to have an emergency exit ready at hand whenever I anchor!

 

[Nick_H]

I agree all that, but I'm not quite as convinced that the bow roller assembly and fittings can take the sideways load when the bow yaws and the chain pulls tight in very strong winds. Even if it can, I hate the metal on metal crunching noise of it, so if I'm stuck there for a while I use a bridle. It may depend on the set up on particular boats and it may not be a problem on yours. A chain lock as you describe obviously wouldn't have any effect on this particular issue.

I made up a bridle with the chain hook in the middle and loops on each end which fit over bow cleats on either side of the boat, and I think this also reduces the yaw a bit, though not much.