Diesel in water

[Piers]

Hi Guys, I had a PM from tiggertoo and yes, I had put some diesel in my water tank in my last boat. My actions were to overfill the water tank to push the floating diesel out, followed by bucket loads of detergent and some fairly violent wave jumping to slosh it all around in the hope it would clear the remnants, but all to no avail.

In the end I used Berthon, Lymington where I kept the boat at the time, and they said leave the problem with us. I did, and a week later there was no trace whatsoever and the water was as sweet as anything.

When I asked what they used, their works manager (Dave Street) said 'don't ask, you wouldn't like to know!' I found out it was some dreadful combination of chemicals which simply ate every bit of diesel leaving the tank, pipes and fittings perfect. But it worked.

Dave told me I wasn't the first, nor would I be the last. He had dealt with far worse diesel contamination then mine, always with the same result - no problem.

He still won't tell me what they used....

 

[tcm]

yep,altho i think i would firsttry stop putting anything in , and try using a small pump insterted down the freshwater inlet until can just hear it sucking - so it pulls the floating stuff off the top perhaps? Then overfill after aftr that.

Quite a lot of waiting too to let diesel setlle to top. Wonder how long that takes? I wd check that out withbucket of water and bosha bit of diesel in it to see how well the diesel separates.

Then syphon out the whole water tank i spose.

 

[Ships_Cat]

An alternative if the tank has got an access hatch so can be opened for ventilation is to just let the diesel evaporate off.

Even big diesel spills when refueling boats evaporate away within a day or two with only minor residue left and are usually treated that way. If only a litre, as the original poster says, it would evaporate pretty quickly.

Then final clean from there.

John

 

[BrendanS]

once you've done the overfill bit, drain the tank then flush with alcohol (industrial if you can get it, bulk and cheap), and flush through all the pipes with same if you've used them, then fill and flush through with dishwasher detergent (fairy liquid would do same, but foams) and flush through all the pipes and taps if you've used them since diesel went in. Refill and do detergent again and wash out. Several times.

Best of both worlds


[url="http://www.sailmag.com/Letters/watertank/[/url]"]http://www.sailmag.com/Letters/watertank/[/url]

a lot of the treatment will depend on whether the diesel has gone through the pipes and tubes. or is just in tank. If just in tank, let it settle. Then get off top. If been through pipes and tubes, the treatment has to access those as well

 

[Oen]

Re: Berthon...

I'd be pretty unhappy having anything done to my boat and not being told, in detail, what had been done...

 

[KevB]

As already said, I'd stick some washing up liquid in the tank and overfill. It's amazing how a little washing up liquid disperses diesel. As the diesel floats I'd let some water out using the bathing platform shower add more fairy liquid and over fill a few times.

 

[Guest]

Re: Diesel in water ..... evaporate ??????

Sorry - you cannot be serious ? What temperature / climate are you in ? Sahara Desert ?

Even if the diesel did evaporate - you would be left with a bigger problem of higher density more gummy residue ... at least as "diesel" it is still cleanable .....

There are cleaners available such as Gunk and Gamclean ... which break up the fuel ..... making it emulsify. The problem is the taint is so hard to remove.
If I was to do it out here - I would disconnect all piping, siphon out ... loads of detergent swilled around - as I originally posted ... Then pump it all out. I have access to acids and all sorts that would then basically burn out all crud / residues .... but of course we are now into areas that are not available over counter.

Evaporate it out - I'll have to remember that one !!!!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Diesel in water ..... evaporate ??????

Well you may like to tell the spill cleanup folks 'cos that is exactly what they do.

It spreads to a thin film on the sea and quickly evaporates - the information I have, and my own observation, is even a constained (so thicker than a monolayer) film on the sea surface will evaporate within 1 or two days, even in cold climates. Given that the original poster said there was only a litre went in there is probably only a thin film so will evaporate. Will certainly beable to soon see if it does not due to the thickness being more than a film.

Quite agree if talking about a container of diesel or a significant thickness what you say is correct. However that does not seem to necessarily be the poster's situation.

If only a litre went in and the tank surface is small so that the film is much, much thicker than a monolayer then I would absorb the oil (or skim pump it off as I think TCM said) and then let the thin film evaporate. That way one avoids contaminating the sides of the tank, the interior baffles if any and and the vent, if displaced out by overfilling filling the tank. If there is only a litre, there will likely be very little to displace out in any event if the tank well down as the film will attach to the surface of the sides of the tank, baffles and vent as the water level is raised.

Yes, there will be residue left that does not evaporate but I though that the more sensible among us realised that one would then proceed to clean the tank - not top it up and drink it /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Sorry to destroy your apparant glee.

John

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Diesel in water ..... evaporate ??????

diesel in a tank though has a constrained surface area, and the diesel is not being spread into a fine surface layer, with addtional help of wind and wave action to spread and evaporate.

In a tank, you also have the issue that the only way it can effectively evaporate out of the tank is up a tube, otherwise it will be still inside the tank, so you'd need some sort of fan and preferably inlet and outlet to create some airflow

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Diesel in water ..... evaporate ??????

it can effectively evaporate out of the tank is up a tube, otherwise it will be still inside the tank

You will note that I specifically said in my first post IF THE TANK HAS AN INSPECTION HATCH and IF THERE IS ONLY A LITRE. I hope peeps can hear that now.

Diesel films will evaporate off still water - do a google and I am sure you will find somewhere that evaporation of diesel is the common cleanup method for it on the sea, even in ports (where most spillages of it occur).

It may be that the surface area of the tank is very small (or much more than a litre went in - our own diesel tank is within the fin keel foil so has a very, very small cross section, maybe only 6 inches wide, and one litre even in there only raises the level by around 1.5 mm) so that the film is very thick in which case as I have responded to the excited SBS that one then thins the film by absorbing or pumping off - by doing that I would expect it pretty easy to get it down to monolayer thickness. If the boat has not been in motion then the contamination will only be over a limited surface of the tank rather than from the current fill level up through the vent if one displaces it off.

Off course peeps can do whatever they want but my own approach would be to do and try whatever to avoid spreading the contamination further than it already is.

John

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Diesel in water ..... evaporate ??????

you do get a bit excited yourself! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Even an inspection hatch is not really comparable to diesel evaporating from open water. Would take a fair while /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Then newbies come along and say there is a clique that defends one another! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Diesel in water ..... evaporate ??????

Gawd, yer turning into another bluddy Pom Brendan /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John

 

[Guest]

Oh Dear ......

In fact I do not revel in this absurd thread within thread .... as you are well aware - I make my biz in fuels and their quality etc.

Your comment about oil spill and evaporation ... I don't know where you got that info and who gave it to you .... but any fuel that is persistent - that is heavier HC than light gasoline has to have dispersant sprayed / mixed with it to break the chains. Gasoil - or diesel as many call it - is a persistant Hydrocarbon fuel. For years dispersants such as LOC - based on almond oil and other natural agents - were used ... not only on the beaches / shoreline but on oiled birds etc.

I have a suspicion that you are mixing up spills of various "fuels" ....

Yes there will be evaporation of part of the gasoil - but that is the light ends and additives - such that you will be left with an even more persistant residue ... not something I would purposely do. Removal of those light fractions is IMHO a no-no.

There may be a possible route here that has occurred to me ... insertion of oil absorbing mat ? The stuff that takes up oil and resists water ? As it is said it is a litre and that should be taken up reasonably easy by a single application ? Leaving the taint and tank sides to clean down .....

I'm not interested in arguing with anyone on here ... but who is going to wait to evaporate diesel !! And leave behind the gum and sh**e result ????

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[stephenh]

Re: Oh Dear ......

This is 'tongue in cheek' , to a degree.

Possibly an 'SBC' question ?

We have threads galore about the diesel bug, Cladisporium Resinae et al. and how to get rid of them from water contaminated diesel.

With diesel contaminated water would it not be possible, after physically cleaning the tanks as much as possible, to introduce the bug ( can you buy it ??) into the water tanks?

Would the bug get rid of ('eat') the last final bits of diesel ?

If this were to be the case then a simple filter on the line could get rid of the bug remains.

Maybe there is some money in this .....

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Oh Dear ......

Well I have to say that you are a lone voice amongst the experts, if indeed you are an expert on marine pollution.

A couple of extracts below from pollution professionals and they are in agreement with my previous work in marine safety management (which included pollution control). Diesel oil from fishing vessel losses, etc are always left to evaporate for cleanup - it is a risk to wildlife until that happens but generally, as one of the quotes below says, for small spills there is nothing left to clean up (parts not able to evaporate disperse into the water column).

Quite a bit different to your claims. After wasting quite a bit of time searching I could not find one that agreed with your claims.

Here are just a couple of quotes from the many documents available -

Diesel fuel is a light, refined petroleum product with a relatively narrow boiling range, meaning that, when spilled on water,most of the oil will evaporate or naturally disperse within a few days or less. This is particularly true for typical spills from a fishing vessel (500-5,000 gallons), even in cold water. Thus, seldom is there any oil on the surface for responders to recover.

and another

For example, petrol, kerosene and diesel oils, all light products, tend to evaporate almost completely in a few days whilst little evaporation will occur from a heavy fuel oil. In general, in temperate conditions, those components of the oil with a boiling point under 200ºC tend to evaporate within the first 24 hours. Evaporation can increase as the oil spreads, due to the increased surface area of the slick.

I won't bore you with any more.

So sorry, about time you learnt that it is dangerous to enter into a frolic with big cats instead of with amateurs.

John

 

[graham]

Re: Oh Dear ......

SBC earns a living dealing with fuel problems ,I dont allways agree with him but in this case?

Two different issues have become confused here.


Theres a world of difference between pollution control and drinking water quality.

 

[Guest]

Re: Oh Dear ......

I shall retire to my work - having been shown the error of my ways by someone so well informed. Mmmmmmm yeh !! But isn't it interesting that the web can produce evidence of the earth being flat !! That MS Windows has no faults !! etc.

To put it simply - confusing the issue with sea-borne pollution and in-tank is not a good idea and you have done a superb job.

A simple test will show you how wrong you are in this matter ....

Take a fish tank or similar ... put diesel on the water ... try to imagine simulating the original posters problem ... Leave it in a still no wind area at ambient temp.

The same experiment on open sea water will be totally different not because of temp. induced evaporation - but because of motion induced evaporation.

Second Diesel has a greater tendency to emulsify and disperse in water than other fuels of similar viscosity ..... A fact that is definitely not wanted here ....

One of the biggest problems with cleaning up diesel spills is that it spreads easily across the water and does not clump up like HFO or waxy crudes etc. THAT is why it is often left to its own devices ..... but if in closed waters where it cannot spread - the stocks of dispersant held in harbours / ports of the world are used ....

I am not a Marine Pollution operator - but have had dealings with it in various locations around the world ......

I shall now leave you to post freely - as I'm not interested to continue a thread within a thread anymore. You so obviously know so much more about it than me ......

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Oh Dear ......

Shite, there are some strange or thick peeps around - just where did I say one was going to drink the water?

I thought it was plain to anyone with any sense it was just a precursor to cleaning the tank and indeed said so - the objective just bein' to minimise contamination of the tank by either draining down or dislacing the diesel out.

Personally, it would seem to me on the basis of your post that you haven't the sense to make any decision as to who is correct.

John

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Oh Dear ......

You so obviously know so much more about it than me ......

In this particular case it would certainly appear so.

John

 

[graham]

Re: Oh Dear ......

[ QUOTE ]
Shite, there are some strange or thick peeps around -


[/ QUOTE ]

Well thats one point we can agree on.As for the rest of your post I usually find that personal abuse is the last resort of someone who cannot form a coherent argument.