Diesel in Sof - do we have the same issue as UK?

[Forty_Two]

I buy my diesel mainly from La Napoule & have been wondering if we are going to get the same issues as the UK with the reduced sulfur fuel.

Asking is met with incomprehension. Anyone have any knowledge of what's happening down here?

Just need to take a view on whether to start using additives.

Thanks

 

[jfm]

I buy my diesel mainly from La Napoule & have been wondering if we are going to get the same issues as the UK with the reduced sulfur fuel.

Asking is met with incomprehension. Anyone have any knowledge of what's happening down here?

Just need to take a view on whether to start using additives.

Thanks

AFAIK it has been ultra low sulphur diesel there for the last few years. I'm in Antibes and buy from fioul83 and they say their fuel is 0.005% sulphur. There are plenty of older boats in Antibes and I'm not aware of them having problems but I guess you'd have to check your engine specs to see if there is a minimum sulphur percentage

 

[Forty_Two]

Thanks, yes i see their tanker in La Napoule. Tankers are a pain for me as the speed I can take the fuel on winds the drivers up, so I have given that up & use the slower delivery fuel berth nozzle.

I have had no problems with water etc so maybe I am concerned needlessly. My engines are from 2000 so hopefully not an issue, I will check with Sabre.

I always cut my primary filters open to see how things are & so far no extra contamination or nasties.

 

[jfm]

Thanks, yes i see their tanker in La Napoule. Tankers are a pain for me as the speed I can take the fuel on winds the drivers up, so I have given that up & use the slower delivery fuel berth nozzle.

I have had no problems with water etc so maybe I am concerned needlessly. My engines are from 2000 so hopefully not an issue, I will check with Sabre.

I always cut my primary filters open to see how things are & so far no extra contamination or nasties.

You may be worrying needlessly. I think 2000 engines will usually be fine on 0.005% sulfur, though you can maybe check the manuals. I've always found the fuel quality in SofF to be tip top and have never had a problem with it in 9 years I have been there. I've mostly bought fuel in La Nap, antibes, Golfe Juan, Monaco and St Laurent du Var when using fuel berths, but more usually from the Fioul83 truck. i think there is high fuel turnover so it is fresh. I buy 6000litres at a time and call ahead, and several times I've been told "We are down to our last 5000/10,000 litres but we will restock tomorrow" or some similar number, so I am confident the fuel is usually fresh. Best wishes

 

[BartW]

have been wondering if we are going to get the same issues as the UK with the reduced sulfur fuel.

I don't know about these issues in UK,
but I can imagine that there is a demand for better quality diesel,

last year we were in Cornwall with the boat, and my very fuel quality sensitve Volvo D3's (modern comon rail car engine blok)
made more smoke and smell with UK red diesel then in Belgium with standard car white diesel.
also when we drove home, when I pumped the diesel what's left in the boat, in the tank of the tow car, also the car made more smoke,
so I was almost sure the UK red diesel (marine fuel stations) is of a lower quality then normal white car diesel

I was 3 times with the boat with the D3's in SoF, no smoke,
I'm convinced french marine diesel supply is top quality.

 

[rafiki_]

Bart,

UK red diesel is higher sulphur content than road white diesel, although red diesel purchased inland is lower sulphur content this year, and much of it is white diesel with red dye in any case.

Coastal diesel is still permitted with higher sulphur, which will generally create more smoke, as it is lower quality than road diesel.

I'm sure you appreciate that you were not permitted to use the red diesel oin your road car. Serious misdemeanour on this side of the channel!!!

 

[BartW]

I'm sure you appreciate that you were not permitted to use the red diesel oin your road car. Serious misdemeanour on this side of the channel!!!

yes I'am aware of that, In Belgium its the same,
but that occasion it was the only occasion I ever had red diesel in my car,
to have lower weight on the trailer,
I rather took that risk, in stead of being too much over the max towing weight, also anker and chain and other stuff is in the car when we do longer trips.

when we reached Folkstone, car was almost empty again

In other country's, Croatia, France we use white diesel in the boat.

 

[Latestarter1]

I thought this was pretty much dead and buried.

Other than just a few exeptions the red diesel that you are bunkering around the UK as of the 1st January 2011 is 'virtually sulphur free diesel' less than ten parts per million in other words the same as the rest of Europe. It has to be because thats when the Non Road Mobile Machinery Directive came into force. The NRMM Directive makes it an offence £5,000 penalty to sell red gas oil with greater than 10 ppm standard into NRMM market place. It makes no logistical sense to have two different grades of gas oil in the downstream market particularly as you have to have dedicated storage. Filling tank with 500 ppm red one day, pumping it out and then refilling with virtually zero sulpher fuel the next, contaminates the the virtually zero sulphur fuel potentially illegal.

Pretty much just the Solent and where distribution is straight forward people have maintained supplies of the old 500 ppm fuel, other than that you get the new stuff because that is what 99% of the gas oil market requires. Also to aid flexibility of the distribution system together with the fact that NRMM fuel and road fuel are to the same standard.

Also as stated before forget the additives, many old smokers will run better

 

[jfm]

Yes but asked about SofF Latestarter, not UK. In SofF there is a huge market for 500ppm. Boat sizes are completely different from UK. There are hundreds of refuelings every day at 6000-10000 litres per boat, just in the Cote D'Azur let alone the wider Med. It's entirely economic for suppliers to deal in 500ppm

 

[Forty_Two]

Ok so we think the low Sulfur is generally for the better, so lets move on to the FAME issue, ie added Biodiesel.

Jfm, do you know if this is added generally in SoF?? This I think looks like being the bigger issue, especially for us displacement guys with much slower turnover of fuel. Some years I don't get through all my diesel so I need to last at least a couple of years without issues.

I have been in SoF for eleven years now with absolutely no problems but I don't know whether this does pose a future problem

 

[jfm]

Ok so we think the low Sulfur is generally for the better, so lets move on to the FAME issue, ie added Biodiesel.

Jfm, do you know if this is added generally in SoF?? This I think looks like being the bigger issue, especially for us displacement guys with much slower turnover of fuel. Some years I don't get through all my diesel so I need to last at least a couple of years without issues.

I have been in SoF for eleven years now with absolutely no problems but I don't know whether this does pose a future problem

I don't know. I didn't think there was bio in SofF fuel and the fioul83 website (I think, I haven't looked agian) implies there isn't. But I don't know for sure. In Spain this summer all the pumps sold me "Gasoline A" which I think has bio in it but I'm not sure. Hurricane did a post on this in about March or April. My fuel is rarely sitting for more than 3 weeks in the tanks, except over 4 months of winter

There are so many boats in SofF that if some fuel is going to cause problems you'll know about it before it happens to you!