Diagonal Ply Hull repair

[Richard Williams]

I am considering buying this 1974 37' Italian boat. The boat has been in the same ownership for 14 years and has in that time sailed over 16K miles. The current owner has undertaken major work on the hull as he says the planks were wet. He is not a native English speaker. The work looks very impressive and the finish excellent. It was carried out by a very well known Italian yard who specialise in this type of boat.

Is this a good repair? Should I worry about any residual moisture in the planking causing problems in the future? Forum members help would be much appreciated

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17IpRIxxxqS6dMeB2xQZrwZPK_o4xgRwd/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HVMUmcjUUfVvJDx7doqBdmyIytHuPP4H/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15SD0vBXPMT0FCmqV_8r2USHIED_FeSqT/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10mV5YgHDbbWAnBtrj3VPGz2Ezq3JO-gI/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ueOEHy0xh3NzNlRueV6Tcc9j2gncfnwl/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1czD_hjqyoc2wCI4FV3SUC-60URUWOOt3/view?usp=sharing

 

[Freebee]

we cannot see your pictures!!

 

[Richard Williams]

Edited I now think they are viewable

 

[Keith 66]

She is a lovely looking boat, That amount of work must have cost a fortune, looks like they have done a proper job to me.

 

[Wansworth]

A question for a yachtsurveyer

 

[Kukri]

Yes, this is a recognised procedure. The most famous boat that I can think of which had this done is the Falmouth Quay Punt “Curlew” :

https://nmmc.co.uk/object/boats/falmouth-quay-punt-curlew/

As always with cold moulding, everything depends on the quality of the work. If done well it absolutely improves the boat.

You might want to ask the question on the Woodenboat magazine website as well as here.

 

[Richard Williams]

What about that residual moisture in the original planking, is it anything to worry about?

 

[Kukri]

What about that residual moisture in the original planking, is it anything to worry about?

What is it? If it’s something sensible like teak iroko or Honduras mahogany, and she was ashore for quite a while, as she almost certainly was, so that the moisture content will have settled, no, I don’t think there’s cause for concern. You are going to get water in the boat anyway.

Cold moulded boats rot from the top down - rain gets into the voids in the laminations at the gunwales, where there are slight gaps in, or damage to, the rail cappings, runs down inside the laminates and site and starts rot. So the deck / topside rail area is the place to look very carefully.

 

[Freebee]

If you have concerns, then I would suggest you need a proper survey from somebody who has expertise in this form of construction, whilst we can all look at your pictures and make comments, you won't get the the reassurance you seek without somebody physically examining the boat.

 

[Richard Williams]

Thank you all, of course the boat will be surveyed if I am taking this further I was just looking for those with experience to guide me as to which questions to ask the repair shop that did the work. This is in preparation to taking the decision to commission a survey

 

[Tranona]

The yard should be able to provide your surveyor with a schedule of work showing for example moisture readings of the layers left on the boat, the adhesives and species of wood used for the new laminations and how the top of the lamination was finished to prevent further ingress of fresh water.

As said earlier the photos show the method used is correct but it is the detail that matters. You need a specialist surveyor who understand this method of construction and can as the right questions. Be aware though that even aperfectly built or repaired boat of this type requires constant attention and will not stand neglect like a GRP boat.

 

[Kukri]

Thank you all, of course the boat will be surveyed if I am taking this further I was just looking for those with experience to guide me as to which questions to ask the repair shop that did the work. This is in preparation to taking the decision to commission a survey

Right- oh!

1. Original planking and centreline and how fastened?
2. Was the caulking hardened up before the could moulded strakes were applied?
3. What glue was used?
4. What precautions were taken to minimsse voids?
5. Were all the cold moulding fasteners withdrawn?
6. What is the skin over the could moulding? Glass cloth, rovings, nylon cloth, etc.

 

[Hadenough]

Right- oh!

1. Original planking and centreline and how fastened?
2. Was the caulking hardened up before the could moulded strakes were applied?
3. What glue was used?
4. What precautions were taken to minimsse voids?
5. Were all the cold moulding fasteners withdrawn?
6. What is the skin over the could moulding? Glass cloth, rovings, nylon cloth, etc.

Interview time. What knowledge / experience are you using to make these recommendations?

 

[Keith 66]

Looking at the photographs you see a cold molded boat being planked up presumably with epoxy, then sheathed in glass cloth there is next to no clue as to how she was planked originally? Was she a carvel boat that has been sheathed with cold molded wood? or a cold molded boat that has undergone substantial repair? If a wooden boat has to be sheathed a cold moulded overcoat is probably the best way but it has to be done right. Was the new skin laid up with thick veneer or plywood strips? If plywood you are relying on the glue used in the plywood manufacture as well & we all know how poor some ply can be these days.
If monel staples or nylon nails are used you can leave them in, steel they have to come out. Pulling staples is the poxiest job known to man!
My main worry would be the edges of the new skin where they meet the centreline structure, how has that bit been sealed? Glass sheathing with epoxy is good on cold molded boats as it protects & gives abrasion resistance. My worry would be if it hasnt been continued across the centreline structure under the ballast.
I have some experience with cold molded boats having trained as a wooden boatbuilder & 35 years experience. In this time among all the usual stuff i built two cold moulded boats from scratch & a third which was a cold molded rebuild of a vintage Saunders launch.

 

[Wansworth]

I worked at Souters for while and they used little tabs of ply held down with a staple to hold the laminate in place

 

[DownWest]

Looking at the photographs you see a cold molded boat being planked up presumably with epoxy, then sheathed in glass cloth there is next to no clue as to how she was planked originally? Was she a carvel boat that has been sheathed with cold molded wood? or a cold molded boat that has undergone substantial repair? If a wooden boat has to be sheathed a cold moulded overcoat is probably the best way but it has to be done right.

I would bet that it was originally cold moulded. The last photo seems to show the hull with the outer layer(s) stripped off and it still appears to be moulded.

 

[Kukri]

Interview time. What knowledge / experience are you using to make these recommendations?

There are no recommendations there. There are a handful of suggested questions, on the basis of literally half a century of continual ownership of wooden boats from 9ft to 38ft, at least one of each of the usual constructions, and therefore inevitably fitting them out, making repairs, consulting surveyors and boatbuilders and getting to know them as friends.

 

[Hadenough]

There are no recommendations there. There are a handful of suggested questions, on the basis of literally half a century of continual ownership of wooden boats from 9ft to 38ft, at least one of each of the usual constructions, and therefore inevitably fitting them out, making repairs, consulting surveyors and boatbuilders and getting to know them as friends.

Fairy nuff