Designing and building a modern wooden classic

[pmagowan]

Has anyone done this or similar. This is a future project I would love to do but it is very much in the 20 year plan plus. Design a new boat from scratch and build it in my shed at home with all the best of modern and old practices combined. I would even like to cast the metal parts. I might start off with a litle dingy for practice but idealy I would be looking at around 38 foot. I would like to design it from scratch rather than to build off plans. Is it a crazy idea?

Before I do this I am building a workshop to make windows, doors, victorian style shutters an orangery and a library for my house so I will be busy for a while.

 

[Sixpence]

Just a personal opinion, but I think there's a lot more to planning and building a boat from scratch than I would want to take on. Some time ago a member of the forum sent me the plans for a 35' Cutter, design by a Jay R Benford, if you fancy building yourself I'd be happy to send them. Never did get around to it myself due to other commitments

 

[Davegriff]

Designed and built a couple of small boats as a young 'un - nothing like 38' though. If you're planning on doing it over the next twenty years, I reckon that's easily plenty of time to learn how to design, draw up plans and built it. Definitely not a crazy idea at all.

 

[sarabande]

Noooo problem at all PMG.

My former neighbour built a heavy 37ftr from scratch, even to building the workshed first. In the middle of Exmoor, 20 miles from the sea.


http://www.justintyers.co.uk/


Have a look here at his boat, much of which I helped carry down a 90ft slope to load it on to his Series 2 LR, for assembly on a piece of flat ground elsewhere.

However, he did have a proper naval architect draw up the plans to his own rough design and detailed spec. No massive workshop tools: a modest bandsaw, plus lots of hand electric jobbies and hundreds of cramps.


Go for it

 

[tolhurstorganic]

I built Naida from scratch including felling/collecting storm damage trees from 80s hurricanes. Built the shed first seasoned the wood for 15 years and took 12 years to complete.
A massive project. Several features in Watercraft
see www. traditionalboatcharter.com

 

[sarabande]

wow, Ian, I hadn't a clue of that story ! Just seen the video on Youtube also.

Well done, Sir !

 

[Findhorn]

Yes,albeit a 21 footer and that took me 4 years to build after about a year playing on the drawing board, so for 38 feet you may use up a lot of that 20 years .I have to admit though that I thoroughly enjoyed the whole process and would love to try something larger but it is a huge commitment in time,money and effort .
I would recommend that you try something a lot smaller to begin with to give you an idea of what your letting yourself in for and do a lot of research on design and construction before you even lift pencil to paper..Go for it.:encouragement:

 

[Paddingtonbear]

Have a look at Off Center Harbor.com, it is a brilliant site that might give your great pleasure whilst you gather your thoughts. It certainly sustains me whilst I fight my legal battles with insurance companies and repair my classic wooden stinkpot.

 

[pmagowan]

Thanks guys you are kindling a flame. I am inspired by all your projects. It might need to be a 30 year plan! I love working with wood and I will end up with a pretty good workshop once I have finished my house. I will then need to find projects to spend my time on, not that I have much. I don't mind jumping off the deep end and I like the idea of spending time in designing her so that I will know what I am making rather than just blindly following instructions. The main thing is that I will need to do a lot more research into what is a good design. I already have my own ideas of what makes the perfect boat and they are quite personal. I like long keels, nice swept back bows and overhanging sterns. I also like tillers and so don't want to go too big such that a wheel would be required. I love the feel of a boat through a tiller. I know that it would be a big investment of time and money but then spreading money over time is less of an issue and time spent guttering at something you enjoy is time well spent. There are a couple of small projects that I would probably do before getting stuck in, a sailing dingy and a curragh that my Dad is keen on building (he already has one that is well over 100 years old).

I have seen videos of the cold moulding process of building a boat with laminated timber to make structurally sound and stable bones and then cedar strip planking with veneer overlay followed by glass fibre. It all seems very modern but with the traditional techniques blended in and lots of wood. I think you might be able to get the best of both worlds this way. Anyhow, thanks for all the encouraging comments, this aint going to happen tomorrow but I will keep you all informed if and when I start.

 

[TQA]

Get hold of Details of Classic Boat Construction by Pardey

Go look at a Spirit 46.

If it is your first build expect to take ten years or more if working part time on it.

And remember there is a cruel saying about amateur boat builders FOOLS BUILD BOATS FOR WISE MEN TO SAIL,

 

[chal]

Not crazy at all. I watched this boat being built http://grayhoundluggersailing.com/galleries/buildgallery and it was done in about 2 years from scratch by an amateur builder, who did everything from felling the trees to casting the keel. Having said that, he had built a boat before, a more modest 32 footer, and was clearly a very skilled craftsman, but he was not a professional builder. He did get a professional architect to do proper plans which might be a good idea, but there are several people out there either doing plans sets for traditional boats (I think some of these http://www.kastenmarine.com/ look pretty good) or drawing them up to order.

The 2 year build was obviously done at that speed with a lot of help, and as a full-time job so speed was of the essence, but I reckon if you had your own space so that wasn't costing anything it would be a brilliant thing to do over a number of years. I see you are in Northern Ireland so not likely to bump into Grayhound but if you ever get a chance to go aboard, the boat is just magic - really inspiring in terms of making you want to have a go!

 

[pmagowan]

Not crazy at all. I watched this boat being built http://grayhoundluggersailing.com/galleries/buildgallery and it was done in about 2 years from scratch by an amateur builder, who did everything from felling the trees to casting the keel. Having said that, he had built a boat before, a more modest 32 footer, and was clearly a very skilled craftsman, but he was not a professional builder. He did get a professional architect to do proper plans which might be a good idea, but there are several people out there either doing plans sets for traditional boats (I think some of these http://www.kastenmarine.com/ look pretty good) or drawing them up to order.

The 2 year build was obviously done at that speed with a lot of help, and as a full-time job so speed was of the essence, but I reckon if you had your own space so that wasn't costing anything it would be a brilliant thing to do over a number of years. I see you are in Northern Ireland so not likely to bump into Grayhound but if you ever get a chance to go aboard, the boat is just magic - really inspiring in terms of making you want to have a go!

Wow, that is a big boat, it looks like he is building the ark. They always look so much bigger out of the water. He has gone for a completely traditional build which is lovely but probably more time consuming. With modern glues I suspect that laminating wood is the way to go in terms of cost (wood wastage), time and strength (always have the grain running 90 degrees to the force in ribs etc). I love the way he has taken it from tree to finished product. I would love to do that but I think it just adds too much time. We planted a wood about 25 years ago but the trees, although impressive, are still 40 years away from being large enough for boat building.

 

[pmagowan]

Yes,albeit a 21 footer and that took me 4 years to build after about a year playing on the drawing board, so for 38 feet you may use up a lot of that 20 years .I have to admit though that I thoroughly enjoyed the whole process and would love to try something larger but it is a huge commitment in time,money and effort .
I would recommend that you try something a lot smaller to begin with to give you an idea of what your letting yourself in for and do a lot of research on design and construction before you even lift pencil to paper..Go for it.:encouragement:View attachment 42078

She is lovely. Nice to be able to say you created her.

 

[Tranona]

There are many different ways of going about building a "modern" wooden boat. It is important to remember that in most cases the wood is used as either a framework or a core material and much of the strength comes from the use of epoxy and glass. Leaving aside ply, the three main methods are strip planking on frames/stringers - essentially the same principles as conventional construction but using adhesives instead of mechanical fastenings; cold moulding using wood as a core (either veneers or strip planking), usually with minimal framing and sheathed with glass/epoxy; combinations of the main methods, sometimes with other fibres such as carbon or Kevlar for local strength. Some designs bond the internal structures to the hull with epoxy, in much the same way as fitting a GRP hull, others build a conventional interior, and yet others use the interior structure as moulds and framing for the hull. Decks again can be either conventional structure or moulded (with or without wood core).

With regard to design, many existing designs, particularly older long keel types, can be adapted relatively easily to modern construction methods, although they usually need some revisions to account for the (usually) lower hull weights. Some designers, Ed Burnett for example, specialise in designs based on older types but using modern construction. Others such as Paul Fisher have designs that echo traditional boats but use modern construction. One or two designers have gone as far as offering very detailed plans and even kits - for example Roger Dongray and Dudley Dix. You will find many more if you look in magazines such as Watercraft over here and Woodenboat in the US.

Worth getting a copy of the "The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction" which is the bible on using wood/epoxy composites. It is available from Wessex Resins (the WEST distributor) or Robbins Timber.

The big advantage of modern wood construction is that it allows custom building and one offs that is not possible using GRP. However, it is not "easy". It does not necessarily need a high level of carpentry skills, but does eat up a lot of labour hours as the number of components to be glued together is high as is the time required to get a fair finish to the hull. On the other hand many of the jobs can be done single handed and small bits at a time. Time taken is the biggest negative as you need to have long term access to a warm dry interior space to take maximum advantage of the properties of the materials. It is possible to build outside under a waterproof shelter in the summer months, but you still need a warm workshop for winter work. I have seen a 40 footer built outdoors with the moulds and framing built inside one winter, assembled, strip planked and sheathed by 3 people in the summer, second winter spent indoors prefabricating the interior and moulding the deck and the second summer putting it all together in the outside shelter. That was a very minimalist boat - at least the interior, and the builder/designer was a professional. An estimate for a single handed part time builder with some help to build a boat of that size would be at least 7 years!

 

[Romeo]

Are you married, do you have a family? If so, your time is not your own and you have to either take the family with you on this building journey or buy a part complete boat and take them sailing instead. However, there is I am sure no feeling as satisfying as setting off in a boat that your hands have been on every single inch of.

 

[pmagowan]

Not married so work is my main time drain and I am hoping to win the lottery any day soon. I already have a wooden boat, 28 foot Honeybee, which required extensive restoration. We knocked a hole in the gable on one of our sheds and she fitted nicely in there where I could work on her over the winter. I have touched every part of her during the rebuild/restoration. I want to replace the deck and cabin roof at some point in the next few years also so will probably get her back in the shed. It is about 10 miles from the sea but our next door neighbour has a good big tractor and we have a trailor which works OK. We have a small tractor which is fine for moving her about when she is in the yard.

Thanks Tranona for your detailed reply. My philosophies are that I would like to design her myself so reading up on a lot of successful designs would be good research. I would also like to do as much of the work myself including metalwork etc. I am pretty handy and can turn my hand to most things but there is a degree of learning on the job and obviously you don't want to make any expensive mistakes. I do not mind it taking a few years as a project and it is down my list of priorities at present but it would be a nice thing to do. Perhaps when I have my house finished and I am getting to the stage where I would like a bigger boat I can turn my attention to it.

I do like the idea of blending old and modern techniques. I like wood and woodwork and feel I could make a pretty good job of it from that point of view. The problems I would have with traditional construction is the weight and wastage of timber and the sacrifices in terms of design of boat as well as the ease of construction. I like the idea of a boat that doesn't leak and I think modern techniques could achieve this. I also have seen a number of cold moulding type constructions on video and they look amazing in terms of structural strength.

It is all only a pipe dream at present but I have from now until it becomes a reality to research and study it as it is an interesting topic in its own right even if one never lifts a hand plane!