Depreciation After Loosing Red

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mikesyam

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In the next 3 months I could finally be in a position to sell my Sealine F33 and get a F42/5 which I have wanted for years, the biggest worry now is if I manage to get a used 2006 one now for say £270k, realistically how much would it be worth after we loose red, I have noted that there are so many boats of this size that have been for sale for ages and not sold so what are peoples opinions on what this £270k boat would be worth in December? Trying to decide would it make sense to wait till then then and see what happens and probably steal a bargain.
Thanks Mike
 
I think that the small end of the market (sub 30') will be OK, because a lot of boats that size are petrol anyway. The big stuff will be OK because the cost of fuel is relatively low compared to the overall running costs.

The stuff in the middle is going to get hit hard IMHO: 35'-45' family cruisers where another £3-4k a year in fuel may tip people over because it might mean binning a family holiday.

I'd sell now and wait to see what happens. Sorry to be a prophet of doom, but that's the way we see it. We're going to stick with it, do a little charter stuff to make it pay its way, look into bio, whatever. But the boat stays.
 
See Newark marinas web site , im sure you would get a part ex on your f33 as they have a 42 as a trade in/stock boat, talk to tony or james and mention me if you like, they are good to deal with on partex deals and they will spec the boat to your requrements .
 
Its not a question of if we lose red - we are going to pay more than road fuel full stop.

IMHO the effect has already been partially felt in the market place.

The small stuff on petrol will not be effected by red but is effected by the underlying rapid rise in fuel prices. There is no power boat sector that is safe.

I think all the market up to about 70 foot or so is being hit and will be hit even harder.

I have owned largish boats circa 60 foot and know others with the same size and we all agree that the red issue will hit hard. I do not swallow the argument that its only a small proportion of the cost of running the boat. The marginal cost matters and its what is felt on each trip - its not a question of being able to afford it - its a question of being able to justify spending nearly £2k for fuel on a trip to a port 80 miles away and back.

Now combine with the red issue with the bill of now having to pay for Mr. Brown's ten years of public and private debt that has been built up and the combined effect is really going to hit power boat prices big time - and it already is doing just that as demand falls month on month.

Its a fact that all boats will sell - at the right price. Its just that many afre living in a cloud cuckoo land world on prices.

Sorry to be so gloomy about this but its the truth as I see it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
......which should last you 3 seasons at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

'Like a red rag to a bull'.......?

I'm not persuaded. These bloggers will simply fire up the 20hp Bukh or Nanni, and motor around at 4000rpm until the fuel/bearings/waterpump gives out, blue-black smoke emits, and the 'go' lever stops. Then they'll do as normal...... holler for the RNLI, for a tow-in!

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I take it there is nothing we can do??

we have done all we can and on our behalf the Boating organisations.

I thought the exact amount of tax has yet to be decided and how it will be paid.

Do we know when this decision will be announced?
 
What is to stop me from setting up a charter co. & hiring the boat to my other companies on a weekly basis for corporate entertaining ? This would give my charter co. 5 paying customers. Just an idea.
For every GB tax law there is an equal opposite law somewhere, surely. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Not worth my while as boat use is not that high but a solution for some. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I think a lot of boats will be driven far slower than in previous years, and not as far, while some will be sold.

Economical boats will suffer least, overly thirsty ones may languish on brokers pontoons for years before selling at a depressing price.

New boats engines sizes will decrease to more realistic levels (Do you really really need 800bhp?) and people will be far more careful about the boats they buy.

Now in reality, this is about what happens now to a certain extent, so nothing drastic should happen!
 
Best to look at the effect of no red diesel in countries that haven't had the concession we have. Effect on boating and values? Zero.

Or look at the effect marina berthing increasing in cost by four figure amounts for a mid sized boat has over the last few years has had on values (or popularity of marina berths for that matter). Zero.

Or look at the effect paying road prices has on people running small petrol boats (and remember they're typically the ones with least disposable income, they've got the cheapest boats). Zero.

General market and financial conditions may very well have an effect. Loss of red won't, it's too small a proportion of total cost for the vast vast majority of boat owners. If another £1,000 or so a year was going to see them running for the hills they'd be out of it anyway by now.

Recession might knock boat values. A few extra quid in diesel won't. Nor will a few doommongers on YBW.com
 
I will certainly be looking for a nice Broom European shortly,should I wait until prices collapse just a tiny bit or wait until they go into terminal freefall. No doubt enlivened with a nice dead cat bounce at the end when we all scuttle our boats to get the insurance.
 
Oh dear Ari ... still misrepresenting the facts to make a point /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Best to look at the effect of no red diesel in countries that haven't had the concession we have. Effect on boating and values? Zero.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact is that they will not be paying our high tax - I think many would have settled for their price but even they as fuel costs naturally rise will change their market.

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Or look at the effect marina berthing increasing in cost by four figure amounts for a mid sized boat has over the last few years has had on values (or popularity of marina berths for that matter). Zero.

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Marina berths are for all boats including sailing boats - there is already a falling power boat demand.



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Or look at the effect paying road prices has on people running small petrol boats (and remember they're typically the ones with least disposable income, they've got the cheapest boats). Zero.

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They run small boats around the bay and will still be hit by rising fuel prices - your point proves nothing.


[ QUOTE ]
General market and financial conditions may very well have an effect. Loss of red won't, it's too small a proportion of total cost for the vast vast majority of boat owners. If another £1,000 or so a year was going to see them running for the hills they'd be out of it anyway by now.

[/ QUOTE ]

many are getting out of it and by the way its an extra £1000 just for one little trip for some boats. All your calculations are based on not using the boat!


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Recession might knock boat values. A few extra quid in diesel won't. Nor will a few doommongers on YBW.com

[/ QUOTE ]

Its already happening - i thought that being in the trade and with a vested interest in talking up the market you would know that? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I agree with ari. The bottom has'nt fallen out of the boating market in other European countries where motorboaters pay road fuel prices so what makes people think it's going to happen here? Though I do agree that most motorboaters will probably be more careful how they use their boats. IMHO, the market will be more affected by any economic downturn, if it happens
If you're worried by depreciation though, I would think twice about buying a late model pricier F42/5 rather than an early model cheaper one. After maybe 5-7yrs depreciation begins to level off and you'll lose more money buying a 2006 model than, say, a 2003 model. Apart from that, there's always more peeps around to buy cheaper boats
 
You miss the point - our road fuel prices are much higher than in the Med. All my friends who own cruising power boats agree with me and they have already acted or are acting on it.

There are 5 factors that are going to hit the power boat market hard:-

1. Increase in fuel prices because of deregulation

2. Natural sharp increase in fuel prices with the only more price increases to come in the future.

3. The depressed financial market

4. Increased cost of borrowing

5. Tightening credit market

I know people trying hard to get out of the power boat market with their boats up for sale for well over a year. O think the market that will ben hit hardest is the 30 to 50 foot one. I hear of incredible deals on new boats as makers try to unload them.




.
 
You miss the point - our road fuel prices are much higher than in the Med. All my friends who own cruising power boats agree with me and they have already acted or are acting on it.

There are 5 factors that are going to hit the power boat market hard:-

1. Increase in fuel prices because of deregulation

2. Natural sharp increase in fuel prices with the only more price increases to come in the future.

3. The depressed financial market

4. Increased cost of borrowing

5. Tightening credit market

I know people trying hard to get out of the power boat market with their boats up for sale for well over a year. I think the market that will been hit hardest is the 30 to 50 foot one. I hear of incredible deals on new boats as makers try to unload them.




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In the normal French & Spanish marinas I have visited (Not obvious rich boat marinas) it seems to me there are an awfull lot of small boats but not very many big ones.

Take a look in Dieppe, Fecamp, etc. All little 'merry fisher' types. Hundreds of them and hardly a boat over 40ft.

Is this due to their higher fuel costs than we currently have ? Maybe it's just a lifestyle thing and they like little boats. They do seem to be avid fishermen and you don't need a gin palace for that.
 
Well, good to hear you are still singing the same tune;stating it all as hard fact rather than your personal opinion, with a few anecdotes thrown in to support your argument /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
What will his dream boat be worth? No one knows. Will it be worth less? Thats a pretty good bet,I think.

Yet people buy cars withour worrying at that they ll lose 30-50pct in a few years. Big cars,expensive cars.And they do it time and time again. WHY? Bcz they want it.
If its something he wants, and he can enjoy it without the pleasure being ruined by worry about depreciation, then I say just do it. Its not an investment anyway (and plenty of those are proving pretty useless these days!).
And if he cant afford it, then dont do it.
Cant boat when your dead, of course. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
I'm not going to debate it again Guldy.

Thing is though mate, my examples are based on facts, examples of what's actually happening/happened.

Yours are no more than theories.
 
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