Shaz77
Well-Known Member
Simple one this. Those with Lithium life po4 on board will write pages and pages defending their honour and those with Lead Acid onboard don't give a monkeys. Funny that.
Defending their honour.
- Thread starter Shaz77
- Start date
ylop
Well-Known Member
But you seem to care, and reading between the lines don't have LiFePO4 batteries... so just trying to stir?
Caladh
Well-Known Member
Noooo…don’t feed the troll 
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
There’s 126kw of lithium batteries in my life now, without the boat. That will come in due course. 2 electric cars and a household battery.
bikedaft
Well-Known Member
Stop starting...
Minerva
Well-Known Member
RunAgroundHard
Well-Known Member
Cognitive Dissonance or “effort justification” describes the psychology where a person praises their efforts even though the outcome doesn’t match the praise.
Defending lead acid when comparing to LiFePO4, or comparing ownership of a Contessa 32 with a Bavaria 32, or full keel with fin keel, GRP or wood, are examples where dissonance exists when believing a certain functionality is better, when the facts suggest otherwise.
Defending lead acid when comparing to LiFePO4, or comparing ownership of a Contessa 32 with a Bavaria 32, or full keel with fin keel, GRP or wood, are examples where dissonance exists when believing a certain functionality is better, when the facts suggest otherwise.
flaming
Well-Known Member
I’m up to 678Kwh.
Nothing on the boat yet. Would love to get rid of the diesel…
veshengro
Well-Known Member
Just kidding...
applebadger
New Member
Different use case but on my liveaboard narrowboat (no shore power at the mooring) I had a 300ah lead acid battery bank which I swapped for a 400ah lifepo4, along with an alternator regulator and all that jazz. Difference is night and day with the greater capacity, ability to sit at less than 100% unharmed and faster chargin. In winter, I run the generator/engine once every 7-10 days rather than every 2 days, and in summer I can cook on electric with no need for any charging other than solar.
No need to justify it against lead when I've had both; aside from cost and simplicity, there is nothing to defend lead. Those with lead acid on board and are happy with it probably don't have a use case which would benefit from lifepo4. For example, my little 18' sea boat has lead, no need for a big leisure battery on that, and the only time I'm on it with the engine not running is at night.
No need to justify it against lead when I've had both; aside from cost and simplicity, there is nothing to defend lead. Those with lead acid on board and are happy with it probably don't have a use case which would benefit from lifepo4. For example, my little 18' sea boat has lead, no need for a big leisure battery on that, and the only time I'm on it with the engine not running is at night.
S04
Well-Known Member
With a large dose of attention seeking.Cognitive Dissonance or “effort justification” describes the psychology where a person praises their efforts even though the outcome doesn’t match the praise.
Defending lead acid when comparing to LiFePO4, or comparing ownership of a Contessa 32 with a Bavaria 32, or full keel with fin keel, GRP or wood, are examples where dissonance exists when believing a certain functionality is better, when the facts suggest otherwise.
potentillaCO32
Well-Known Member
I don't understand a word but it sounds bloody good.Cognitive Dissonance or “effort justification” describes the psychology where a person praises their efforts even though the outcome doesn’t match the praise.
Defending lead acid when comparing to LiFePO4, or comparing ownership of a Contessa 32 with a Bavaria 32, or full keel with fin keel, GRP or wood, are examples where dissonance exists when believing a certain functionality is better, when the facts suggest otherwise.
Chiara’s slave
Well-Known Member
I don’t have a factory. Someone has converted their Dragonfly to electric, with sn E propulsion Navy drive, and a lot of Kwh. I have pictures if you’re interested.
flaming
Well-Known Member
It's a pipedream at the moment. Spare boat cash goes on sails....
sailorman
Well-Known Member
i recall Boeing having a problem with LiOn on their 777s early on
flaming
Well-Known Member
787 Dreamliners wasn't it?
Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
I suppose the last remaining benefit of lead-acid is the ability to weigh them in for tuppence worth of scrap every few years
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
If we're honest we all experience cognitive dissonance at some point - it's part of the learning process.
People deal with it in different ways, you can re-think your assumptions or beliefs, maybe even change them, or you can attempt to ignore or invalidate any information that conflicts with those beliefs - most entrenched people choose the latter. The emotional discomfort caused by cognitive dissonance is also compounded by behaviour that contradicts what one believes or knows to be true.
I think it is also tied to the aging process, older people are more likely to be resistant to new information as they have a legacy of behaviours, beliefs, and life decisions that are based on old information - including accumulated personal experience. Old stuff feels inherantly more comfortable than something new - whether its a physical item or an idea.
For example, those who were used to the heavily built cruisers of the 70s, and who formed their opinions around the '79 Fastnet, are of course going to hold the (at the time correct) analysis as gospel, and will be reluctant to change their minds - particularly if they have invested heavily in that belief. They will also successfully pass those beliefs onto a proportion of the following generation. New tech usually is a bit flakey at first until the teething problems are ironed out - in the adoption phase, the problems encountered provide more than enough ammo for doubling down and forming arguments to support resistance to change. People usually concentrate on the minutia, increase their relative importance, and ignore the big picture (e.g. skegs or keel-stepped masts).
The cognitive dissonance bites when Sunfast 3300s, j 99s or First 30s succeed at offshore racing, or when "soap dishes" survive and win the '98 Sydney Hobart (on handicap). AWBs cross oceans regularly, and appear in all corners of the world - HR is producing boats which have many of the features of AWBs, but still sell their range as "Hallberg-Rassy bluewater yachts" ... which they are. I doubt anyone would discount a centre cockpit HR44 as a yacht to sail the oceans on. I know someone who ripped the skeg off his HR36, delaminating the hull and leading to an interior-removal for repairs - all they did was turn sharply to avoid rocks and the skeg took an impact from the side.
I feel the inner conflict, but things move on ... the old heavy boats of last century will eventually dissappear from the market completely, the AWBs of today will be the MABs of tomorrow, and we'll have a new set of "floating caravans" to deride, but people won't stop successfully crossing oceans.
As for the OP ....
LiFePo4 is a fantastic technology, lighter, more usable capacity, faster charging, and with a more stable output voltage under load. On the downside, it can't be charged when cold without heating elements, it will give off nasty gasses if damaged, and it is far more complex than LA batteries to charge and store. But we are not far away from a lead acid battery phase out due to the lead content. Many products containing lead have already been banned or modified - Lead acid batteries are on the chopping block and it's just a matter of time.
People deal with it in different ways, you can re-think your assumptions or beliefs, maybe even change them, or you can attempt to ignore or invalidate any information that conflicts with those beliefs - most entrenched people choose the latter. The emotional discomfort caused by cognitive dissonance is also compounded by behaviour that contradicts what one believes or knows to be true.
I think it is also tied to the aging process, older people are more likely to be resistant to new information as they have a legacy of behaviours, beliefs, and life decisions that are based on old information - including accumulated personal experience. Old stuff feels inherantly more comfortable than something new - whether its a physical item or an idea.
For example, those who were used to the heavily built cruisers of the 70s, and who formed their opinions around the '79 Fastnet, are of course going to hold the (at the time correct) analysis as gospel, and will be reluctant to change their minds - particularly if they have invested heavily in that belief. They will also successfully pass those beliefs onto a proportion of the following generation. New tech usually is a bit flakey at first until the teething problems are ironed out - in the adoption phase, the problems encountered provide more than enough ammo for doubling down and forming arguments to support resistance to change. People usually concentrate on the minutia, increase their relative importance, and ignore the big picture (e.g. skegs or keel-stepped masts).
The cognitive dissonance bites when Sunfast 3300s, j 99s or First 30s succeed at offshore racing, or when "soap dishes" survive and win the '98 Sydney Hobart (on handicap). AWBs cross oceans regularly, and appear in all corners of the world - HR is producing boats which have many of the features of AWBs, but still sell their range as "Hallberg-Rassy bluewater yachts" ... which they are. I doubt anyone would discount a centre cockpit HR44 as a yacht to sail the oceans on. I know someone who ripped the skeg off his HR36, delaminating the hull and leading to an interior-removal for repairs - all they did was turn sharply to avoid rocks and the skeg took an impact from the side.
I feel the inner conflict, but things move on ... the old heavy boats of last century will eventually dissappear from the market completely, the AWBs of today will be the MABs of tomorrow, and we'll have a new set of "floating caravans" to deride, but people won't stop successfully crossing oceans.
As for the OP ....
LiFePo4 is a fantastic technology, lighter, more usable capacity, faster charging, and with a more stable output voltage under load. On the downside, it can't be charged when cold without heating elements, it will give off nasty gasses if damaged, and it is far more complex than LA batteries to charge and store. But we are not far away from a lead acid battery phase out due to the lead content. Many products containing lead have already been banned or modified - Lead acid batteries are on the chopping block and it's just a matter of time.
geem
Well-Known Member
How did you turn a discussion on lithium into an argument about sh1tty modern boats against superior older boats
Shaz77
Well-Known Member
Reading loads of previous threads and this message most people have to write a book to justify their choice of lifepo3.
Nobody just nobody can simply say in a few simple words
"there good aren't they"