decision time for 43ft flybridge purchase...

[vas]

dear all,

it's time to take the big decision regarding the 1976 Versilcraft Mystere 43 on this thread (second craft post 10 onwards).

The knowledgeable colleagues that saw the photos and got a detailed explanation on the condition say go ahead.
The legal people did all the checks and just informed me that all is clear and sale can go ahead (just paperwork that will take couple of weeks)
Mechanic will check and report on engines and generator on Wed when I'm next in Athens to view her for the third time (but I'll be very amazed if there's any problem on that respect).

On the other hand,
the Italian experienced surveyor that PYB recommended says that the plywood used for the hull is not great and he'd not invest money on a wooden Mystere (it is seaworthy no problems there, just maintenance)

Spend the best part of last night checking the web looking for info on life expectancy (and how that is defined!) for plywood hulls.
Info was so confusing and mixed up that wasn't helpful (even GRP hulls are often being mentioned with a life expectancy of 30 years...). Being an architect and involved in constructions for the last 20 odd years, I believe I can understand structural deficiencies and problems with rot and other such fouls. I've not spotted anything in this one apart from the dodgy repair that will have to be re-examined and done properly.
However, boats aren't my field and I guess I'd be happier on a GRP hull knowing that it needs less maintenance and will last longer (well in theory).
One of my friends says I should seath (sp?) it with 3-4layers of glass and polyester but from my knowledge mixing living materials such as wood (OK less so for plywood but still does flex, expand, change humidity etc) with manmade stuff is looking for trouble let alone the fact that any water that makes to the bilges and then inevitably between the plywood and grp will be there for ever and wont be able to breathe and move as it should...

So, I'm about to start a project that will mean 5-10years of ownership, extensive renovation work that will take place during this winter shifting cabins and heads about, re plumbing all that and rewiring all that. I'll do all the work myself so no problems there.
What I'm worried is if its sane to do so on such an old hull and plywood constructon.
Typical use will be travelling to the edge of the massive Pagasitikos Bay (20nm across) and to neighbouring islands and spending 3-5days at a time living on board, swimming, fishing, exploring (wife, kids 11 &9 and myself, and most likely another couple of kids or whole family)
Once a year could be heading across the Aegean to Mitilini or Turkish coast on a 2week journey. Volos to Turkey is 200nm, not much and littered with small and large islands to break the trip.
Ah, and did I mention the fact that I REALLY like this craft A LOT (designwise and overall-one of the very few crafts that you don't see any laquered timber onboard!). Even wife likes it (she also likes some 50+ft modern Azimut and Cranchi stuff...)

Money wise:
cost is 21K euro (cheap even for GR standards) plus 3.5k for transfer docs, new seaworthyness test, insurance and the rest of the paperwork.
I'll probably spend 6hrsX3days a week for 5months (at a enjoyable relaxed pace) to get it to the standards I want and I'll pay around 10k on materials (teak, new heads, corian for the heads, wiring, homeautomation/alarm system with sensors et al, upholstery, carpets, etc)
Don't get me wrong, doing all the work myself is something that I enjoy immensly and wont be something I'm forced to do.

Finally, craft will be on the hard for 4-6months a year (mainly for tax reasons as the fancy complicated tax system here charges way too much for a 13m craft) and I'll be happy to do the burn/scrape/primer/antifoul on the hull annually (unless there's paints there that can increase the intervals)
Mooring costs are nil at the city marina 400m from home here in Volos, lifting/storing for the winter is around 500euro per annum.

well turns out it's not quite a question post but just my expressing all my ideas with a need to get a confirmation or objection from others to get me going...

cheers

Vassilis

 

[rafiki_]

I don't think there is any realistic advice that can be offered, because the issues you raise are so variable.

There are many marine ply boats 80/90 + years in top order as they have either been properly maintained, or rigorously renovated. Service and maintenance history is so vital here, and unless anyone on the forum knows this boat well, you will get opinions here, many of them valuable.

There are also grp and ply boats of 20 to 30 years old that look ready for Davy Jones. Some of these might be recovered with money and patience.

 

[MystereMarcus]

Go For It...

The Mystere is very much a Marmite design (the original MBY report in 1976 said you either love or hate it), you obviously love it and more crucially so does your wife. The size and layout (once you've finished with it), will suit your needs ideally and the engines are reasonably new and in excellent condition. The only issue would appear to be that it is of Plywood construction. As Rafiki has pointed out there are plywood boats around that are going to last a lot longer than the people who are discussing them. Also, I know you have searched and looked at a lot of Mysteres in varying conditions but I don't believe any of the hulls were anything but sound, which speaks well of their construction.
You know it makes sense.

 

[gjgm]

No idea at all.
But
seems you like the boat
seems you like the work
seems advice so far(but covering surveyor excepted) is you have a fair idea of the risks.
I you can afford the financial risk of it going somewhat wrong, go ahead, as I think you will have alot of reward, £££ aside.
If you cannot afford that risk, do not do so, bcz its only a boat, and there is no need to waste life worrying about £££ being wasted on a boat.

 

[Tranona]

There are two issues with plywood. The first is its internal structural integrity - a function of the type and quality of the veneers and the glue used to bond. Over time they can break down and I would guess that the stresses placed on the bottom panels of a planing hull would test strength! However, the designer should have taken that into account in designing the supporting framework to reduce free panel sizes. BTW Khaya is a good wood for laminate veneers - same as my boat - hopefully it does not have lower quality intermediate veneers.

The second issue is much more common, and that is rot following ingress of water, usually through open end grain. This is more common above the water line where rain water gets into joints particularly in superstructure and vulnerable places like deck hull joints. Can also happen below the water at joints such as chines or panel joins - or if there is impact damage. Repairs can be relatively easy by cutting out defective panels and scarphing in new material, but can get complicated if rot has got into the supporting framework. Small areas of localised damage can often be repaired with a mixture of new material (wood, veneers or ply) and epoxy/glass, particularly if a fine cosmetic finish is not required.

As to long term preservation, sheathing is the answer. The best, but no longer available is Cascover, which I have on my nearly 50 year old ply boat. Next best is epoxy/glass, but both are best done when a boat is new to ensure a good bond. Don't think with an existing hull it is worth trying to get it back to a state where you could successfully sheath, so better to stick to the existing regime using conventional coatings and dealing with any local failures immediately.

Provided you are OK with the higher maintenance time requirement, the boat looks like a good financial deal. The key thing is provided the hull is structurally sound, the engines make it very usable. You could easily pay 10 times as much for a similar size modern GRP boat with far less potential to adapt to your personal needs.

 

[moonraker 36]

i reckon you will need to double your budget for material's and such...
hope everything work's out ok for you..

 

[vas]

Thanks for the points/replies

rafiki, points taken, maintenance is key issue, that's why I prefer this one to other craft I've viewed (mostly GRP well neglected)

Marcus, I was expecting that from you, you're biased so your opinion doesn't count

gjgm, I feel I can aford the time, hence as Tranona points, should be a low risk project if maintained correctly as I will

Tranona, points taken, careful surveying, often, and addressing problems as found. Hull has always being down to ply every year and primed,antifouled, I'll keep the same habit.

moonraker, I'll probably present the Q to the wife, so the price had to look good I agree typically budget is double of the double of your initial thoughts, so 20-25k is about right but will be spread over time and wont have labour costs at all.

any other views welcomed!

V.