Day Skipper to France?

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Gordy M

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Hi all,

I attained my day skipper certificate a couple of years back, and have been sailing my boat around the Solent all season.

I am keen to sail my 25ft motorsailer from the Solent to Cherbourg in May, is this folly? should I hold back till I have more training "Coastal Skipper"?

Looking around the web, I found this, it doesn't sound that daunting, or am I fooling myself? http://www.sailingalmanac.com/Almanac/Navigation/crossingchannel.html

Thanks
Gordon
Waimanu
 
You'll get all sorts of replies including no, your boats too small, pah dazed kipper, not enough experience, why Chrbourg what about... , etc...

Only you know whether you have the cahones to do it for the first time. Many don't. solent bound by all those that say unless you have been born on a boat you must never ever think about such foolish endeavours.

Pick your weather window, make sure your boat is well found and you have back up plans for engine failure, fuel contamination, and that you know how to change filters. Read back over your books, maybe read a Yachtmaster Book, and go for it, if you think you should.

At the end of the day it all comes down to personal confidence.

BUT please do not base your decision on whether someone on this forum says "yeah, you and your boat are OK, go for it".
 
Comrade Red said:
You'll get all sorts of replies including no, your boats too small, pah dazed kipper, not enough experience, why Chrbourg what about... , etc...

Only you know whether you have the cahones to do it for the first time. Many don't. solent bound by all those that say unless you have been born on a boat you must never ever think about such foolish endeavours.

Pick your weather window, make sure your boat is well found and you have back up plans for engine failure, fuel contamination, and that you know how to change filters. Read back over your books, maybe read a Yachtmaster Book, and go for it, if you think you should.

At the end of the day it all comes down to personal confidence.

BUT please do not base your decision on whether someone on this forum says "yeah, you and your boat are OK, go for it".
Click to expand...

I would agree with Comrade red, but would also say do not base your decision on someone on this forum saying "you're doomed". The weather window and tides are the key questions. Make your first an easy one and you will end up saying 'what was all the fuss about'. As far as TSS and collision avoidance, discretion is the better part of valor, my rule is prevention is better than cure.
 
Yeah, you and your boat are OK, go for it.

Seriously, though, there's no reason why a 25' motorsailor shouldn't do it, or why a Day Skipper shouldn't take her across. It's not that far. So, as Comrade Red says, it's all about your confidence. No need to wait until you feel completely confident, though ... go when you feel just a wee bit unconfident. Encourages a healthy sense of self-preservation.
 
One way is to take a crew with you who has sufficient experience for you to trust and is supportive. You still are skipper and make the decisions, he/she is there to give you confidence in those decisions. Of course, you may want to do it single-handed.
 
Read "Narrow dog to Carcassonne" they took a canal narrow boat across the Channel , even those idiots on Top Gear got across on a Toyota pick-up! Shure they had standby boats etc but as other posts say, it's all about picking the weather and tides.

I've never done it so not really in a position to offer advice but if you are confident in sailing around the coast for 30+ miles in one go then you should be OK,

Do the homework, do the sums, look at the weather take three deep breaths and............

All the best with your plans, I hope that you do it....


Cheers
 
Assuming the boat's in good condition I can't really see any reason not to. It's not difficult, you just keep going for a bit longer than you're probably used to.

Cherbourg itself is dead easy to arrive into - the only gotcha is the strength of the cross-tide on the approach. So aim for the up-tide entrance (giving you the downtide one as a backup, I needed it on my first time) and make sure you are always up-tide of it for the last few miles.

Refresh your memory on working out a course to steer allowing for tides, there's plenty of descriptions out there often based on exactly this passage. Depending on the time of the tide you'll be making either a curve or an S-bend across the chart. I like to mark this projected route lightly on the chart and then I can see how closely my actual fixes are following it. If you get the planning a bit wrong it's not disastrous - just keep an eye on your position over the second half and particularly the last quarter of the passage, and make sure you are going to end up just up-tide of Cherbourg.

AIS would make life easier in the shipping lanes.

Unless you're a complete numpty you're not going to be setting off in weather conditions that would be dangerous - uncomfortable at worst. But it would probably be good to err on the side of caution for a first trip, especially given that you have to get back as well.

But yeah, I say go for it. Your boat's a foot longer than the first one I took across :)

Pete
 
+1 with Comrade Red and others advising in the same way.
To all of that I'd add that the OP should absolutely avoid putting himself in a position where he might be returning on a schedule (as opposed to the freedom to return when he considers conditions right). That includes the wishes of any pals/crew he might have along. "But I had to get back to the office" is a dumb epitaph.
 
Don't confuse level of qualification with experience. I had someone who held a Coastal Skipper ticket on my boat who had done little or no sailing outside of the courses leading to the qualification and I wouldn't have trusted him to stand watch by himself, let alone skipper a boat by himself. However, I've friends who hold no qualifications at all who are competent sailors who skipper their own boats on extended passages without a second thought.

If you've been sailing round the Solent for a season or two, you've probably got the tools you need to make the Cherbourg trip. Look for a good weather window, take a deep breath and go for. If you're worried about being the skipper by yourself, get a more experienced mate to come with you the first time. Enjoy.
 
John Goode, Principal of Southern Sailing School and very experienced yachtsman and instructor, wrote a very good illustrated booklet entitled "Crossing the Channel" that tells most of what you need to know. Unfortunately it's out of print but you might find a copy on eBay.

He also produced a very good DVD, based on the booklet, which is available:

http://www.southern.co.uk/publications.html
 
Thank you for all the responses and the good advice.

My boat is in great condition, and I wouldn't attempt this single handed, my brother will be coming with me, he has been with me for most of this seasons sailing, and although he doesn't have comp crew ticket, I would say he is competent, more so than I was after doing the comp crew a few years back.

I think I will still aim to do it, but back way out if the weather is not good.

Thanks a lot
Gordon
 
Forget the tickets mate !
With or without them only you can decide if you should or not .... Often having these pieces of paper gives people the idea they are able to do things they clearly should not.
I would think that because you have to ask the question you already feel you are not up to the trip but the fact some self appointed authority has issued you with a piece of paper everything will be ok.
I would far rather go to sea with an experienced sailor with no qualifications than some of the highly qualified people I have had the displeasure of sailing with.
One of who I would never get on a boat with again.
Why not have a go (as acting skipper) with someone who has done it a few times, from there you will start to know if you can do it alone (at this point you don't need someone else to say you are qualified).
They say if you can't do it yourself ....TEACH IT
 
I have sailed with all people with all the bits of papers in the world, and quite a few have been useless at it. Equally well I have been with brilliant people with no 'qualifications'.

It is experience that counts. The Solent area is actually a very complex place in which to sail - confusing tides, mudbanks, yachts, ferries, tankers and goodness knows what. I used to sail from the Hamble, and to tell the truth, I don't think I could do it on a regular basis now.

Have you done Chichester and Poole a few times? If you haven't, don't cross the channel until you have.

When I used to do it, if the wind was in the west I would overnight in Studland, then get off soon after the dawn (after the 05.20 forecast). This gave a crossing in daylight and a better slant to the wind. Watch the tides as you approach the coast - about 2/3rds the way across you will have a good idea of your ETA and work out the tidal vectors. They run surprisingly fast. If you find yourself downwind and downtide remember you CAN go somewhere else - Omonville, Barfleur, St Vaast - you don't have to go to your preplanned destination.

A question - why go to Cherbourg? It is not that attractive, bombed to bits in the war, badly rebuilt and the marina is a huge parking lot for AWBs. Go to Alderney; much more fun. But watch getting drawn into the race.

Maybe get a crew member who has done it before?
 
Most of a cross channel trip is occupied by trying to deal with the boredom... No, I enjoy it but there are quite long periods when you have plenty of time to check the navigation, take bearings on passing shipping, etc. Part of the planning on your first few goes is to discuss the plan with others - as you're doing here. If you are in a sailing club, then chat with others about what you have thought of and they may be able to point out anything you've missed. If you're really lucky, you may even find another crew going over the same weekend. Sailing in company doesn't have to mean in sight of one another, but should something be puzzling you it's great to be able to get on the VHF and check notes with each other. Of course, actual conditions may differ from forecast with more or less tide and more or less wind. With more crew, it's a comfort to discuss what conditions will make it more comfortable to make for an alternate destination. More than once we left Emmsworth heading for Cherbourg and finished up in Poole - on one occasion stopping on the IOW with not enough wind to get further south than St Catherine's Point and the next day so much wind that we topped 10kt surfing a CO26 on our way to Poole instead - arrived in time for a lunchtime beer!

Just like the comments about the return trip, every passage plan should read "From Solent Toward Cherbourg". It's a plan not an obligation. There'll be other weekends...

Rob.
 
Minchsailor said:
IIt is experience that counts. The Solent area is actually a very complex place in which to sail - confusing tides, mudbanks, yachts, ferries, tankers and goodness knows what. I used to sail from the Hamble, and to tell the truth, I don't think I could do it on a regular basis now.
Click to expand...

I'd have thought the tricky bits of crossing the channel would be leaving, arriving and crossing the shipping lanes. Anyone who has been stoating about the Solent for a couple of years should have no problem with the leaving and arriving bits, and I can't recall any accounts of people being run down in the shipping lanes so they can't be that hard to muster the necessary care and caution.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I'd have thought the tricky bits of crossing the channel would be leaving, arriving and crossing the shipping lanes. Anyone who has been stoating about the Solent for a couple of years should have no problem with the leaving and arriving bits, and I can't recall any accounts of people being run down in the shipping lanes so they can't be that hard to muster the necessary care and caution.
Click to expand...

Yup - the rest would just be boring with nothing to see - came to the conclusion a long time ago that the way to get to Cherbourg is on the ferry... :D
 
Comrade Red said:
You'll get all sorts of replies including no, your boats too small, pah dazed kipper, not enough experience, why Chrbourg what about... , etc...

Only you know whether you have the cahones to do it for the first time. Many don't. solent bound by all those that say unless you have been born on a boat you must never ever think about such foolish endeavours.

Pick your weather window, make sure your boat is well found and you have back up plans for engine failure, fuel contamination, and that you know how to change filters. Read back over your books, maybe read a Yachtmaster Book, and go for it, if you think you should.

At the end of the day it all comes down to personal confidence.

BUT please do not base your decision on whether someone on this forum says "yeah, you and your boat are OK, go for it".
Click to expand...
+ 1

prv said:
Assuming the boat's in good condition I can't really see any reason not to. It's not difficult, you just keep going for a bit longer than you're probably used to.

Cherbourg itself is dead easy to arrive into - the only gotcha is the strength of the cross-tide on the approach. So aim for the up-tide entrance (giving you the downtide one as a backup, I needed it on my first time) and make sure you are always up-tide of it for the last few miles.

Refresh your memory on working out a course to steer allowing for tides, there's plenty of descriptions out there often based on exactly this passage. Depending on the time of the tide you'll be making either a curve or an S-bend across the chart. I like to mark this projected route lightly on the chart and then I can see how closely my actual fixes are following it. If you get the planning a bit wrong it's not disastrous - just keep an eye on your position over the second half and particularly the last quarter of the passage, and make sure you are going to end up just up-tide of Cherbourg.

AIS would make life easier in the shipping lanes.

Unless you're a complete numpty you're not going to be setting off in weather conditions that would be dangerous - uncomfortable at worst. But it would probably be good to err on the side of caution for a first trip, especially given that you have to get back as well.

But yeah, I say go for it. Your boat's a foot longer than the first one I took across :)

Pete
Click to expand...

Some good advice there ,go for it ,make sure of the weather window and def' pay attention to the tides.Might be best going with neaps, but watch for wave forecasts wind against tide condition can be quite bouncy as there is a lot of tidal flow . Stick with Cherbourg large target for first time Alderney might be tempting but the thrill of the first time will overshadow the destination. The down tide entrance can have a lot of tide coming out and if the east it can be a slog up to the town with the tide against you , so make sure you are up tide for arrival.
 
Fantasie 19 said:
Yup - the rest would just be boring with nothing to see - came to the conclusion a long time ago that the way to get to Cherbourg is on the ferry... :D
Click to expand...

When you tell people you fly gliders, people always ask "How long can you stay up?" and in the ensuing discussion you end up explaining that a five hour flight really isn't any more difficult than a half hour flight ... both halve a take off, some soaring and a landing, and if you can stay up for half an hour you can stay up indefinitely as long as the conditions stay the same. My longest trip last summer was Kirkcudbright to Girvan, and it was rather less complicated than the shortest, Carrickfergus to Bangor.

Incidentally, my longest three glider flights were 6h21m, 6h22m and 6h22m ... all done in the Cheviot hills and all without a time piece of any sort aboard, Spooky, eh?
 
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