Dartmouth Regatta - should we race ?

Blue_Pearl

Blue_Pearl

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We're thinking about taking part in a few races next week, only trouble is we've never raced before !!!
Do we just tinker about and watch this year, or do we go for it and not worry if we screw up?
We're not confident with the spinnaker yet and so wouldn't try flying that anyway, so we are as a minimum looking at the white sails race on the Saturday. What are your thoughts regarding racing for the first time (well first time in a yacht - only raced Fireballs before). Will people get really pee'd off if we don't know ALL the racing rules etc.?
Do I break out the laminate sails (Light Laminate Main, Light Laminate No.1, Heavy No.1, Medium No.1, UK Tape Drive, Light No.2, Relling, Heavy No.3, Relling, Medium No.3 UK Tape Drive) and leave the spinnakers at home? Bearing in mind we've not tried the laminates yet !

SHMBO and two other crew are dead keen to give it a go, weather permitting of course - we don't do wet sailing yet ;)

Any basic racing tips appreciated.

Boat is an Oyster Lightwave 395
 
Definitely go for it. There's nothing like risking all your hard-earned cash in a close-quarters fight with a bunch of strangers for getting the adrenaline going. The last time we tried it was in a foreign country where we don't speak the lingo, which was even more fun.
 
I would say give it a go. The starts can be a bit scary, so probably best to hang back a bit and see what goes on.......you'll probably end up with a good start that way.
If you haven't tried the laminates, and you are confident with your usual kit I would stick with that...........have a play with the laminates while not racing to get used to them first.
I wouldn't discount using the kite............if it's lightish airs you shouldn't have any problems.
There's usually a bit of shouting at crowded marks...........you'll be surprised how many people 'think' they know the rules :rolleyes:

I'm crewing down there from Friday, will keep my eye out for you...........
Have fun and enjoy the relaxed atmosphere.
Are you rafting up at the Darthaven?
 
race or not

we all start somewhere and it would be nice if we all knew a good race tactician when we first ventured into the racing scene - let me assure you that a good majority of the fleet will not have a clue about the rules' , and if you went round the course shouting 'starboard' and 'water' and 'windward boat' 9 out of 10 yachts will get out of your way, not of course that I am advocating that tactic !!
Lets face it, the Americas cup crew spend a lot of money looking for 'loopholes' to explore.
My advice, go for it, start in the middle of the line on starboard tack, with good boat speed aiming to cross the line 15 to 30 seconds after the gun, watch out if the tide is setting you onto the line, or if its against you you can sometimes just 'hover' waiting to sheet in when the gun goes. Make sure you know the course. At marks try to approach on starboard, anyone asks for water, let them go first, enjoy the satisfaction of getting your boat sailing quick.
If its oughlight airs you will have plenty of time to sort out the kite, but with inexperienced crew leave it until you have practised raising and dropping as you round marks. A cruising chute is sometimes better than a kite, consider.
The big diffence in racing/cruising is the very close proximity of boats, the collision regs are a good basic knowledge to see you through, I used to read the racing rules and then the following weekend try to get myself into an actual situation to see if I understood what I haad been reading. Led to some really good protest meetings!! all part of the sport, and is a good way of learning the finer points of 'mast abeam' 'two boat lengths' 'overlap''water' 'proper course' 'windward boat' etc

enjoy
 
First, have you been 'measured' -Boat, sails, etc?. Have you a handicap rating? Thats enough of the techincal stuff. Like others have said, which and learn. Go where the faster boats have the wind. That way if your handicap is a low-ist number you can climb up the finishing list. Works for me!!
 
dukes4monny said:
The starts can be a bit scary, so probably best to hang back a bit and see what goes on.......you'll probably end up with a good start that way.
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Definitely not!
The start's the most important bit of the race and you must be moving at full speed and as near the line as you dare. In our races a couple of years ago I did 2 good starts/5 because I chose to go from the port-hand end of the line and got to the first mark with the leaders because of a slight bias from the wind. Everyone else will be as scared as you, so just be prepared to shout louder when you have right of way.
 
johnalison said:
Definitely not!
The start's the most important bit of the race and you must be moving at full speed and as near the line as you dare. In our races a couple of years ago I did 2 good starts/5 because I chose to go from the port-hand end of the line and got to the first mark with the leaders because of a slight bias from the wind. Everyone else will be as scared as you, so just be prepared to shout louder when you have right of way.
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Good advice when you know what is going on. The OP has already said they have never raced before, and my advice is based on them not trying to win first time out (beginners luck could come in here though!), but simply to get a feel for what is going on.
The start can be the most daunting time and Dartmouth Regatta has a habit of throwing up a good breeze for the starts (last year excepted!).
If after a couple of races you are ready to get 'in the mix' then go for it.

I would also suggest that you have a lookout on the bow at the start as there will be a lot of boats milling around waiting for their start.
 
Avoid protests ,either protesting or being protested.They are stressful and can ruin your day.plenty of time later to act the Perry Mason.
of course I know some people would not agree
 
Thanks for the positive advice. Looks like I'll have to register for the race then !
The previous owner of Blue Pearl raced a few times in the Solent with varying degrees of success. The last TCF was 1.012 in the Cherbourg Double Class 1:IRC
I have last year's IRC certificate - so will I need to get this renewed for 2009 as proof of handicap ?
We have a mooring at Noss Marina so there will be no need to raft up at Darthaven - from looking at last years pictures it looked crowded there !
Finally, do you think we should recruit a few more crew? At the moment it's just SHMBO and our usual tag along first mate. The boat is designed to be raced by a crew of 10 ....... we've never had more than 5 aboard and can't imagine the confussion of having 10 ! I'm thinking recruiting 2 more would be a good idea to ease the stress.
Unfortunately we don't have a cruising chute - we've got a .75 Oz and a 1.5 Oz asymetric spinnaker and a 1.0 Oz asymetric reacher
 
Is that the old plane sailing?

To race in the irc classes you would need a 2009 handicap, as the formula is tweaked every year, and your handicap will have changed slightly.

However I would be very suprised if RORC could turn a cert round in time, and even if they could I expect the cert deadline has passed. There is normally a deadline in advance of the event to stop people choosing to rate with only small sails when strong winds are forecast.

I would suggest entering the PY classes, contact dartmouth regatta for details on how to get a handicap etc. These are also much less serious, and a better bet for starting out in.

With regards starting, yes it can be stressful, but as long as you're on starboard and give way to everything to leward, you really can't do too much wrong.

If you want to fly those kites, you will need more crew!
 
She used be called Alvine IX, originally raced by Harry Evans out of Poole I think. Ah, I wasn't sure about how the handicap system is calculated, I guess the old 2007/8 certificate detailed the sails etc. so best stick with that same setup and enter the PY class as suggested if they let me!
No kite flying this time me thinks - only tried it once and that was in light airs and no stress. I'd love to fly it more and maybe get tuition some day ............... anyone know any spinnaker instructors local to Dartmouth?
 
Racing without a spinnaker is ok as long as your handicap represents it! If you do manage to get in the race on last years handicap then i wouldn't expect a decent result.

On the flip side, racing is the best way to learn how the boat goes, what works and what doesn't and planning tactics. I'd say go for it, i agree with hanging back on the start line and most of all use the starboard rule as much as possible if you have right of way! :)

You will get a bit of "what the hell were you doing there?" at the bar after but that's what it's all about, most people will let you know if they think you were doing something wrong and give them half a chance and they will help you.

Get stuck in and enjoy yourself!
 
I will be in Dartmouth on Saturday.

We are moving a friends Hod35 back to the east coast from Plymouth.

We could be available to help you race, we will have skipper/owner from the Fastnet and 3 more adult crew all with racing experience. We also will have four young chaps, 2 aged 9 one 12 and one 5. Three of them raced with me last weekend and we won!

If you want some help send me a PM, we are travelling down on Wednesday night, having a night in Salcombe, then on to Dartmouth, where we raced in 2007 in the HOD.

Let me know.

John
 
Spinnaker advice

You might contact Scottie Twister who is on the same learning curve.

As for racing, I'll go against the above flow and advise against until you can fly the kite(s) with impunity. There is nothing worse IMHO than drifting at the back of the fleet knowing you have unused sails on board. And no handicap allowance will compensate. So plan to have a minimum of 5 peeps an board.

To be realistic, once you're clear of the start you won't learn anything about racing, only processing. Been there, done that . . . . PITA!
 
Go with the White Sails class. You won't have the anxiety of tangling up your spinnakers and will be racing against others who will be trying hard but probably also going through the learning curve. Don't hold back at the start, get a book on the racing rules or scan the UK Halsey website (they have good animations of commonsituations, explaining right and wrong).
There is nothing like racing your boat to learn how to get the best from it, how to trim and get the best from your sails and how to read the conditions around you (tide stream and wind puffs/shifts). Makes you a much better sailor and gives you an extra incentive to make sure every piece of deck gear works properly.
 
Did the white sails "race" yesterday, Dartmouth to Brixham and back. Finished in 2hr58min, 13 minutes faster than the next best finisher ............. however when the results were posted it turns out that due to a PY rating of 884 we came in 4th ................ can anyone tell me how a PY handicap is calculated please ? I gave them a copy of last year's IRC cert which says no spinnaker rating is .998 if this helps.
It was our first ever race and we really enjoyed it, timed everything to perfection and in our minds we think we won :)
 
Blue_Pearl said:
Did the white sails "race" yesterday, Dartmouth to Brixham and back. Finished in 2hr58min, 13 minutes faster than the next best finisher ............. however when the results were posted it turns out that due to a PY rating of 884 we came in 4th ................ can anyone tell me how a PY handicap is calculated please ? I gave them a copy of last year's IRC cert which says no spinnaker rating is .998 if this helps.
It was our first ever race and we really enjoyed it, timed everything to perfection and in our minds we think we won :)
Click to expand...

Glad to hear you enjoyed and hopefully you've caught the bug :)

here's an article written in wiki for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth_yardstick

pretty much explains all :)
 
Blue_Pearl said:
due to a PY rating of 884 we came in 4th ................ can anyone tell me how a PY handicap is calculated please ? I gave them a copy of last year's IRC cert which says no spinnaker rating is .998 if this helps.
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There is a formula which will convert an IRC into an approximate PY handicap and in your case the figure would have been 852 using it. There is also the Byron software site which gives calculated PY figures for a whole range of boats

http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/byboat.htm though in your case it doesnt give a figure.

The PY handicap is based on actual declared racing results so it's not calculated like the IRC number from the physical characteristics of the boat. Both systems have problems - the PY suffers from the laziness of club secretaries who dont send in race results to the RYA, and it also suffers from the large number of small volume production boats that arent often raced.

Nevertheless there is a relationship between IRC and PY, and you can draw a line of best fit between the ratings for boats on both systems and end up with most results pretty near the line.

A tip for next time. Try joining the PY fleet flying spinnakers but not flying your own. Unless the fleet is a hot one or the legs are long ones, you will gain more by not using the spinny and your competitors will lose through large numbers of cock ups trying to use the spinny.
 
Blue_Pearl said:
Did the white sails "race" yesterday, Dartmouth to Brixham and back. Finished in 2hr58min, 13 minutes faster than the next best finisher ............. however when the results were posted it turns out that due to a PY rating of 884 we came in 4th ................ can anyone tell me how a PY handicap is calculated please ? I gave them a copy of last year's IRC cert which says no spinnaker rating is .998 if this helps.
It was our first ever race and we really enjoyed it, timed everything to perfection and in our minds we think we won :)
Click to expand...

Glad you enjoyed it. You got "Line honours" which is always a good feeling, well done.
We sailed over from Teignmouth on Friday in some very blustery conditions......the skipper decided to head straight in when we got there, while everyone else was just coming out.......got some funny looks, but they were all heading back in 30 minutes later........
Saturday we had a "This is how you completely fluff the spinny" day, but on Sunday we got it back together and despite the conditions had a couple of good races.
Saw a few spinnaker leg 'knockdowns' which looked pretty scary........
We averaged 7 knots sailing back to Teignmouth afterwards under single reefed main only most of the way!
 
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