Dangerous racing

[davidfox]

we were approaching levington on the orwell on saturday morning, wind 16knots apparent straight down river, we, 3 v small kids on board, up ahead the river a malestrom of tacking yachts probably 50 odd from 25-50ft looked like a classic yachts event. We decide (motoring) to keep well left out of there way, start to thread our way through the fleet (a narrow part of the river) all other traffic trying to do same, a large ketch came charging down at us pinning us against the trots, i couldnt go through as the gap not wide enough I couldnt turn as the ketch was abeam, I bellowed at the helm 'what did he want me to do'? he went about just before I t boned a yacht. further on we were now sailing, another yacht tried to force me into a port hand marker, when I went about to avoid hitting it he was furious being forced to tack, shouting 'get out the way WE ARE RACING' I told him what he could do with his race. My point, narrow river, too many boats, wind direction forcing too many tacks at the start making it v dangerous for other river users, perhaps the organisers should think a bit harder next time when laying there course.

 

[fireball]

yup ... perhaps they should ... but equally, you could have called up the race office on the VHF (usually 37/M) and protest the little [--word removed--] out of his race ... just give the RO a sail number, boat type/name and the time of the incident. Most clubs take this seriously now!
As has been stated so many times Colregs take precident over racing rules, and the 30 second lapse in concentration for that one twot probably cost him more than if he'd tacked earlier giving you room.

 

[Twister_Ken]

We sailed (knowingly) through the IRC Championship starting zone on Sunday, because it was between us and where we wanted to go. By keeping an eye on the committee boat, and some minor tweaks to sail trim and heading we were able to keep out of everybody's way and have a close look at some heavy metal being well-sailed. It's really just a question of keeping your wits about you, being predictable, and 'communicating' with them - if they see your genoa beginning to flap they know you're stalling to let them by, rather than pressing on.

Ok, maybe not the same situation as you faced on the E.Coast, but in your shoes, I would have stuck to the fairway and slowed, twisted and turned as necc. to let them by. After all, you had the facility to alter course at will and in any direction, as you were motoring (which, in most cases, gives them right of way because they were under sail). It could also have kept the kids amused, being on racer-spotting duty.

Personally, I'd rather sail through a good racing fleet, than a bunch of cruisers. It's far easier to work out what's likely to happen.

 

[beancounter]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I'd rather sail through a good racing fleet, than a bunch of cruisers. It's far easier to work out what's likely to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

TK, is this because, as an ex-racer, you've got a better feel for the likely movements among the fleet than the average cruising type?

If so, it might be beneficial for cruiser types to do a spot of racing...

 

[temptress]

I cruise and race and generally and see this problem from both sides. typically the issue is usually wiht the racing skipper and he is usually one from the middle to bottom of the fleet. I my experiance th etop boats usually keep out ot trouble. Some classes are the exception to the rule but there is room for everybody.

 

[FullCircle]

Ken,
frim davidfox profile, I note he has a moody 422. Not exactly suited for short or restricted tacking family handed with that enormous Genny? (second incident under sail)
The Orwell is very narrow and as has been said on here before, usually the well crewed and sailed boats will avoid the potential situations with less than predictable cruisers, especially ones the size of Suffolk. Almost invariably a bit of cruiser avoidance planning may cost you 3 secondss and save you a minute. Also, said well crewed boats would never shout or be rude, they would seamlessly get around the issue and not waste their breath. They may, as one crew, give the offending cruiser the Oakley black lens look that says"you are a twonk, and you are beneath our highly developed contempt", which is sufficient.
That leaves the middle and back of the pack where there is more fluster and bluster going on.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Agree Moody 422 prob has gynormous genny, but he wuz motoring (it sez here).

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
further on we were now sailing, another yacht tried to force me into a port hand marker, when I went about to avoid hitting it he was furious being forced to tack, shouting 'get out the way WE ARE RACING'

[/ QUOTE ]

No - he was sailing ....

Any good racing helm would have spotted that the moody was going to have problems and either avoided the situation or hailed to let the moody know their intentions ...

Any shout of "get out of the way WE ARE RACING" to me would result in either a call to their RO or if no joy with the RO then I'd shuv my motor on, full sail and sit in their wind for a couple of minutes, whilst enjoying a cup of coffee ...
If you're going to hail someone whilst you're racing then make sure it is within the rules - colregs if against a non-racing boat. It is these plonkers at the back that give racing crews a bad name ... and they are the ones in the bar bragging about it afterwards ...

 

[FullCircle]

Ken,
I did say it was the second incident under sail, Sir.
I have a monocular monitor viewing aid from the back pages of the Mail On Sunday if you wish to borrow it for a bit. And a 3ft Fur slipper, half price.

 

[Twister_Ken]

"another yacht tried to force me into a port hand marker, when I went about to avoid hitting it he was furious being forced to tack, shouting 'get out the way WE ARE RACING' "

Ah yes, felt slipper by 2nd class post to my dominatrix, please. However, daft posn to get into - just call "water to tack" loudly and clearly a few seconds b4 actually doing the deed and the racer (if any good???) will have known exactly what was going on and behaved accordingly. As to "tried to force me into a port hand marker, puhlease!

Quite agree though - once actually abused by the jerk, report him to the club or RO.

 

[FullCircle]

I've got a Port hand beaker, '63 Taylors please! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Koeketiene]

[ QUOTE ]

If so, it might be beneficial for cruiser types to do a spot of racing...

[/ QUOTE ]

No!

Last WE confirmed my long held belief that if you're in a hurry you shouldn't be on the water.

 

[FullCircle]

Quote:
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If so, it might be beneficial for cruiser types to do a spot of racing...


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No!

Last WE confirmed my long held belief that if you're in a hurry you shouldn't be on the water.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


No comment! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[davidfox]

I am quite used to racing fleets having raced a laser 4000 for a number of years week in week out all year round. the navigable part of the river where this was happening is barely 150m wide, there were probably up to 50 boats thrashing around with yards to spare in a short length of river, I was motor sailing at this time (main only) You are describing a situation where a gentle weaving in and out avoiding the fleet was the answer, it was not there, there was no room, and regarding your 'Plee ase' remark, you were not there!

 

[Colin_S]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd shuv my motor on, full sail and sit in their wind for a couple of minutes, whilst enjoying a cup of coffee ...

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple of years back I was almost forced off the road and onto the centre of a roundabout by a coach intent on not letting me get in in front of him. I tucked in behind and followed him up the road where I knew the road opened out briefly to 2 lanes. The traffic light gods were smiling on me as I pulled up alongside the coach, both of us in pole position at the red traffic lights. As they changed to green I pulled away ahead of the coach and, as the road narrowed back to a single lane, slowed down to about 10 mph for the quarter of a mile or so to where the road widened again.
I think he got the message /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Twister_Ken]

David,

I raced seriously on bigger boats for 20 something years, and I have NEVER seen or even heard of any racing skipper trying to force a civilian into a mark. Apart from anything else it would most probably end up as a DSQ for them. That's not to say they may not have realised you had a mark under your lee, but hailing for water and then tacking would solve that problem.

One difference between racing and cruising boats is that on a racing boat, having yards to spare is the norm; on cruisers it is the exception. One of my favourite stories concerns a boat sailed by Chris Law - pretty damn competitive. After a downwind mark rounding and kite drop the foredeck man grabbed a spinny halyard that was flapping round his ears and clipped it temporarily to the rail. Only as their nearest competitor tacked away did they realise it was his spinny halyard not theirs! They then proceeded to protest him for a collision (his halyard hit their boat!) and - I think - they won the protest.

As to the river around Levington, I know it a little, having sailed from Levington or Ipswich on several occasions and I'd be happy to race there, although I'd be a bit leery if it was close to low water.

 

[Mirelle]

\"(a narrow part of the river) \"

Levington is in one of the widest parts of the river.

Were you bound upriver or downriver? If upriver, you could easily have gone inshore of the mooring trot. I presume from your reference to a port hand marker that you were bound up river, in which case the same applies - loads of room inside the buoy.

 

[davidfox]

Re: \"(a narrow part of the river) \"

I have made my point.
thanks for the comment

 

[Mirelle]

Re: \"(a narrow part of the river) \"

Unless it was dead low water, there is loads of room outside the buoyed channel.

I was not there, of course, and I may be misunderstanding things, but the racing fleet is, if I may so put it, a known feature of the Orwell on summer weekends!

If you were motorsailing, surely the racing boats, being under sail alone, had right of way anyway?

 

[Pye_End]

Re: \"(a narrow part of the river) \"

'If you were motorsailing, surely the racing boats, being under sail alone, had right of way anyway? '

I had this from a boat sailing last year.

Not true in all circumstances of course, but the boat racing thought he had right of way and sailed glaring at me with cm's to spare!

He was sailing and I was motoring, and I had right of way.

Doesn't soound like this rule is applied here, but I am afraid I agree with some of the sentiments expressed - some racers go a bit further than the rules allow, and get fairly upset when they don't have it their way. I am sure it is the minority, and you get equally poor applications of rights of way from cruisers as well.