Danbuoy

B

Barnacle Bill

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County Kilkenny, Ireland
www.aztecsailing.co.uk
My danbuoy has just sliced itself in half by sinking slowly (over several years) into the length of plastic drain pipe that it sat in.

Having owned danbuoys for 20 years, I have never used them for their advertised purpose. They have, however, been useful for a) getting a piece of cord through a very long hole in a wall and b) passing MCA coding examinations.

Before I get rid of its remains entirely (and de-clutter a bit of the pushpit), does anyone out there regard danbuoys as essential items of safety equipment? Isn't it quicker to do a crash-stop (or clip on in the first place) than to faff about deploying one? They seem to be a lot less common on largish motorboats (which would take longer to stop for a MOB).

(PS I don't have to worry about coding any more).
 
Essential - I would think not now if you have the ability to mark a MOB on plotter. I quite like the idea of the inflatable devices that can be deployed to mark a position. On quite a few boats I have sailed I have found them to be incapable of easy deployment such that they were useless.

However, if one sails where big waves/ocean swell conditions can reasonably be expected then I think they have a place for maintaining visibility by means of the flag/lamp additional height. I wont be getting rid of mine yet.
 
I've been contemplating getting a Jon buoy which I believe consists of an inflatable dan buoy and life buoy in a canister released by the pull of a handle. Seems to be a very quick and simple way of marking a spot when you might otherwise be trying to disentangle a dan buoy and ring from the rail whilst trying to stop the boat and calling up the off watch.
 
My old boat did not have one; it’s not a requirement so I did not bother to get one. Fortunately I did not need one.*
My new to me boat has one I will keep it. It also has a life sling and a life buoy. They are not required unless racing. I think it is better to have than not.*
The purpose is to give a visual reference for where someone went over. The M.O.B button on electronics gives a navigational reference; the nav reference is good in addition to a visual reference but does not replace a visual reference.
You can argue they are not needed if you keep the M.O.B in sight. In reality the likelihood of losing sight of the M.O.B is very high.
A visual reference to where to start looking would be very useful in the circumstance*
 
I have carried a Danbuoy for years ( and when upgrading gave my early one to a friend with a young family who otherwise wouldn't have one ), ever since taking part in a Mayday search for a lady knocked overboard off Hayling foreshore.

She was wearing trendy white waterproofs, it was a windy day with white wave crests, and despite around a dozen boats who like us had heard the call, later helicopter and lifeboat, she wasn't found.

Yes I do think Danbuoys - with a light or at the least lots of reflective tape - are essential.

Have a read of ' Heavy Weather Sailing ' and ' Left For Dead '...
 
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in our training centre we suggest that the first things deployed are horseshoes and other floaty bits. Crash stop, furl the genoa then downwind past the casualty, dropping the danbuoy close to them (plus anything else - spare lifejacket, other floaty bits) before turning to windward for the recovery.
 
Woodlouse said:
I've been contemplating getting a Jon buoy which I believe consists of an inflatable dan buoy and life buoy in a canister released by the pull of a handle.
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The Jon Buoy used to be one specific device, but unfortunately Ocean Safety have since capitalised on the brand recognition by applying the same name to various pieces of inflatable man-overboard apparatus. So you can have a Jon Buoy horseshoe, a Jon Buoy dan buoy, a combination of the two, etc. I believe these are all designed to be thrown, not released by pulling a handle.

The original Jon Buoy is released by a handle, or by an overpriced electropneumatic remote control with buttons wherever you want them. The floating part is a one-man liferaft somewhat similar to a square version of the "donut" rings they tow behind speedboats, but with a lower freeboard for boarding. It has a seven foot flagpole on top, with an auto-activating light, and a lifting becket halfway up connecting to loadbearing straps under the bottom. There's an equipment bag attached which you could put a couple of flares or a small VHF into, though it would make repacking after servicing slightly more demanding.

Pete
 
John.edwards said:
in our training centre we suggest that the first things deployed are horseshoes and other floaty bits. Crash stop, furl the genoa then downwind past the casualty, dropping the danbuoy close to them (plus anything else - spare lifejacket, other floaty bits) before turning to windward for the recovery.
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I had always used the ' gybe immediately ' technique and might still go for it depending on urgency.

However when I went on a course at the excellent Solent School of Yachting their doctrine was ' if someone goes overboard, immediately go onto a beam reach, sail away 100 yards then tack and reach back.

I was made to do this singlehanded on the exam as I knew I would be, after confessing to sailing with only my fiancee as crew, which I think fair enough.

It's a much more steady and safe affair for all concerned and I was surprised how easy it was to keep sight of a fender tied to a bucket; but if say someone was knocked overside by the boom and might be unconscious I'd go for the immediate crash gybe, hopefully dropping lifering and Danbuoy first.

I noticed the routine the novices aboard were going through on the course and took one aside, " what would you do if I went overboard right now ? "

" Well I'd put her on a reach, sheet half out and get someone continually pointing to your position..."

I cut him short right there, " I'd much rather you threw me a ******* lifering first !

Yes I do say Danbuoys - and liferings on drogues - are essential.
 
Seajet said:
I had always used the ' gybe immediately ' technique
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Interesting that you suggest an immediate gybe rather than an immediate tack (into a hove-to position). It seems like on most points of sail this would put you to leeward of your man, and you're probably going to drift downwind faster than he is, being only a head upon the water. Or is the idea based on a realistic assumption that you won't be that close by anyway, and being to leeward (not dead downwind, but off to one side) allows you to approach on a nice controlled fine reach? I know there must be some method in it, as it was the recognised approach in the 1930s according to my Arthur Ransome books :)

Pete
 
It's remarkable that so many different ideas keep surfacing in threads like this, year after year after year. Putting it gently, they can't all be equally sound. It matters that folk think hard about this problem, then choose one ( or more if differently-capable crews are involved ) you can do - and practice it so that it is well-learned....

I am surprised that only rarely, in such threads on here, does the excellent 'Quick Stop' procedure get a mention. This is, to me and many others, the most likely scenario and certainly one I need to prepare for.

Here again is the URL < http://www.rorc.org/general-conditions/man-overboard.html >

The document can be printed off, laminated, and kept close to hand on board for a swift 'reminder' and a moment's thought during each visit to the boat. Of course, it is of limited help is sailing single-handed - unless the MOB falls off someone else's boat and you're nearest.

Let's not keep on reinventing the wheel....
 
prv said:
Interesting that you suggest an immediate gybe rather than an immediate tack (into a hove-to position). It seems like on most points of sail this would put you to leeward of your man, and you're probably going to drift downwind faster than he is, being only a head upon the water. Or is the idea based on a realistic assumption that you won't be that close by anyway, and being to leeward (not dead downwind, but off to one side) allows you to approach on a nice controlled fine reach? I know there must be some method in it, as it was the recognised approach in the 1930s according to my Arthur Ransome books :)

Pete
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PRV,

the gybe immediately technique has the advantage - especially if left singlehanded - of being a fast way around and keeping the MOB close in sight.

It also means you should be luffing up to the casualty; being bounced on the head by a yacht is apparently not considered fun nowadays, some say keep the casualty to windward to avoid the bow but I think this crazy as the bow will pay off quickly requiring another go-round.

I always bring the practice casualty alongside the forward part of the cockpit, coming to a stop then release the Pelican Hooks on the pushpit and get them in, using a snapshackle on the mainsheet & topping lift to use the boom as a derrick if necessary; some gullible crews have tried it and it works.

On the downside one - and any crew remaining - needs to know the boat to do the crash gybe or one might be in all sorts of extra trouble with head injuries or even dismasting - it's quite fun to practice the ' gybe immediately ' and 'reach tack reach ' with a fender tied to a bucket in a quiet channel, make sure you get SWMBO to do it too !

I think if I had a lot of beefy crew I'd do the ' reach tack reach ' but if sailing with my girlfriend and she went overboard I'd crash gybe.
 
prv said:
The Jon Buoy used to be one specific device, but unfortunately Ocean Safety have since capitalised on the brand recognition by applying the same name to various pieces of inflatable man-overboard apparatus. So you can have a Jon Buoy horseshoe, a Jon Buoy dan buoy, a combination of the two, etc. I believe these are all designed to be thrown, not released by pulling a handle.

The original Jon Buoy is released by a handle, or by an overpriced electropneumatic remote control with buttons wherever you want them. The floating part is a one-man liferaft somewhat similar to a square version of the "donut" rings they tow behind speedboats, but with a lower freeboard for boarding. It has a seven foot flagpole on top, with an auto-activating light, and a lifting becket halfway up connecting to loadbearing straps under the bottom. There's an equipment bag attached which you could put a couple of flares or a small VHF into, though it would make repacking after servicing slightly more demanding.

Pete
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The original one is what I was referring to. For me it would be ideal, since if there's more than one on deck then someone is going to be at the helm and so they are never going to just fall in accidentally. That means have a Jon buoy within reach of the tiller and the rescue apparatus will be in the water within a couple of seconds of the casualty going in, meaning that they should easily get to it and greatly easing the job of keeping sight. The fact it's also a little raft with a lifting strop is just a bonus to the ease and speed of deploying it in my opinion.
 
prv said:
However effective, it does strike me as somewhat dated. Dropping headsails, rather than furling them? (and they do mean dropping, as they say to keep the sheets made fast). Bags stuffed with kapok?

I prefer the heave-to-immediately approach, though as stated I need to check its effectiveness on the new boat.

Pete
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Might be a little dated, but non furling headsails are very common on race boats since the sail shape is so dreadful once you start rolling in reefs.
 
prv said:
However effective, it does strike me as somewhat dated. Dropping headsails, rather than furling them? (and they do mean dropping, as they say to keep the sheets made fast). Bags stuffed with kapok?
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My dear querulous Peter, of course you are entitled to your preference.... and I sincerely hope you will never need to do other than discuss it.

It is not, perhaps, too widely understood in these hallowed halls of virtual sailing that it is not every boat that is equipped with furling gear on't headsails. P'rhaps research by the estimable Seattle Sailing Foundation, the Cruising Club of America and the Royal Ocean Racing Club has determined that folks with such furling headgear - esp. those with posh eclectic furling headgear - just don't fall overboard. They don't get out of the cockpit from one season to the next.... except to p. P'rhaps that's a trait confined in large measure to those poor fules who still only have 'anks....

And for many of us old duffers, lifesaving jackets stuffed with kapok are quite expensive new-fangled devices and certainly not for casting on the waters willy-nilly. That is a telling example of throwing good money after bad....

P'rhaps the Frenchmen who lost sight of a colleague off Guernsey last week were practicing the 'Reach - Tack - Reach' technique, and came across an interesting little restaurant, when they felt they needed to make a stop for lunch. Very Gallic....
 
oldbilbo said:
It is not, perhaps, too widely understood in these hallowed halls of virtual sailing that it is not every boat that is equipped with furling gear on't headsails.
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Of course not - but the fact they don't even mention the possibility suggests that the advice was written some decades ago. And that is the sum and entirety of the point I was making.

Pete
 
Funny thing with all the arguments about the best anchors, I have not seen a good argument about which M.O.B technique is the best. It always used to be good topic on which agreement was impossible.
My answer is whichever M.O.B technique you and your crew have practiced.
 
Well, I started this thread (on a fairly boring and seldom-used item of pushpit furniture!) so I guess I get a say ...

For me the quickest and safest way to get back to something (someone) in the water is a 'crash stop': 1 steer up through the wind, 2 sheet the main in hard as you come through, and 3 do NOTHING to the headsail. This can happen very rapidly, very short-handed in the cockpit, and in this configuration (headsail backed but NOT hove to) a modern short-keeled yacht can be steered anywhere (and tack, controlled gybe or simply sail in circles with the helm hard over) without touching the sheets: specifically it can be kept very close to a MOB in the water, going round him etc, till you get sorted with engines, crew, horseshoe lifebelts and recovery plan.

So my answer is: never mind the dan-buoy, keep the yacht within about 2 boat-lengths of the MOB in the water till you've worked out what to do next.

Try it!
 
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