jjj
New member
what are the benefits and problems faced with this type sailing rig?
cutter rig
- Thread starter jjj
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oldsaltoz
New member
The only problem you may have is when tacking, the headsail and sheets must pass in front of the cutter stay.
The advantages are extra rag on a light day and a smaller sail area when required in heavy conditions.
The fact that you have to carry the extra sails haul them up, maintain the second forestay and running rigging may be an unacceptable expense, but they do look fantastic.
The advantages are extra rag on a light day and a smaller sail area when required in heavy conditions.
The fact that you have to carry the extra sails haul them up, maintain the second forestay and running rigging may be an unacceptable expense, but they do look fantastic.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Clean air
To get clean air on both foresails going upwind requires a fair bit of separation of the two sails. Therefore a cutter rig is better suited to a longer boat. Where this is not possible, cutters often set an oversize yankee and use that on its own upwind in lighter airs.
To get clean air on both foresails going upwind requires a fair bit of separation of the two sails. Therefore a cutter rig is better suited to a longer boat. Where this is not possible, cutters often set an oversize yankee and use that on its own upwind in lighter airs.
zefender
Active member
Re: Glad to see you\'re feeling better now TK NM
nm
nm
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Perhaps the biggest advantage is that foresail area is divided in two, giving much reduced sheet tension. For a long-term cruising boat, particularly short-handed by an older crew, this can be a significant advantage. Plus, as elsewhere in this thread, it adds versatility to cope with a range of conditions.
ParaHandy
Active member
If I'd not seen an identical boat with a cutter rig, I'd be scared of fitting one. That said here's more to add to oldsaltoz post:
a) the jib (yankee) has to reduce in area to get over the cutter stays which, if you or your crew don't have the physique of a gorilla, makes trimming the sail a lot easier.
b) roller reefed headsails are not good to windward. With a staysail you should find that you point higher in strong winds eg 3rd reef or even 2nd without the yankee.
c) My staysail is "slab" reefed (not roller) and this gives a wee bit of flexibility.
The disadvantages are:
a) pointing ability - on a *really* god day I tack through 90 degrees (incl leeway) when other boats are doing 80. Big 120% genoas are better but you'd need to lead such a sail by hand over the cutter stay - but some do exactly that on Vancouvers. Sometimes you get sublime conditions with 10-15kn wind where her cutter rig pulls her along effortlessly ie she surprises you.
b) staysail sheet tracks never seem to be in exactly the right place to keep the slot betwixt jib & staysail open. Sometimes you want to take the sheet outside the baby stays and other times not. And that's with a boat designed as a cutter rig (Tradewind 35).
It's the ease of sail handling which is the big plus for us.
Hope that helps.
a) the jib (yankee) has to reduce in area to get over the cutter stays which, if you or your crew don't have the physique of a gorilla, makes trimming the sail a lot easier.
b) roller reefed headsails are not good to windward. With a staysail you should find that you point higher in strong winds eg 3rd reef or even 2nd without the yankee.
c) My staysail is "slab" reefed (not roller) and this gives a wee bit of flexibility.
The disadvantages are:
a) pointing ability - on a *really* god day I tack through 90 degrees (incl leeway) when other boats are doing 80. Big 120% genoas are better but you'd need to lead such a sail by hand over the cutter stay - but some do exactly that on Vancouvers. Sometimes you get sublime conditions with 10-15kn wind where her cutter rig pulls her along effortlessly ie she surprises you.
b) staysail sheet tracks never seem to be in exactly the right place to keep the slot betwixt jib & staysail open. Sometimes you want to take the sheet outside the baby stays and other times not. And that's with a boat designed as a cutter rig (Tradewind 35).
It's the ease of sail handling which is the big plus for us.
Hope that helps.
zefender
Active member
Re: cutter rig on modern light disp?
Interesting thread.
The whole idea of easier sail handling seems sensible/safe. I'd agree too with an earlier post that a cutter rig looks beautiful too.
Why then does the rig not tend to be used by manufacturers of lighter displacement boats? Is it just a cost thing? Or fashion? Is their use on long-distance boats (eg Island Packet, Vancouvers) because they don't need to tack as much as a weekend tearaway and therefore the inconvenience of forestay catching is less noticeable?
Interesting thread.
The whole idea of easier sail handling seems sensible/safe. I'd agree too with an earlier post that a cutter rig looks beautiful too.
Why then does the rig not tend to be used by manufacturers of lighter displacement boats? Is it just a cost thing? Or fashion? Is their use on long-distance boats (eg Island Packet, Vancouvers) because they don't need to tack as much as a weekend tearaway and therefore the inconvenience of forestay catching is less noticeable?
ParaHandy
Active member
Re: cutter rig on modern light disp?
Theory might go something like this: a standard bermuda rig can be tensioned through the back stay to straighten the forestay which would be highly desirable when going to windward. Look at Sigma rigging to see how relatively simple resolving the engineering is. A cutter rig has to cope with two different pressures occuring around the upper section of the mast and has rigging to compensate for that which makes it difficult to simply tension the backstay. (Would be interested to know of a cutter with backstay tensioner)
The forestay on my rig will flex in a beautiful parabola when going to windward (reasonably decent blow) and there's nothing I can do about it.
The weight of rigging (9x10mm & windage), cost, mast design, sometimes specially cut yankees all make a cutter more expensive, not so fast and not so good pointing.
Theory might go something like this: a standard bermuda rig can be tensioned through the back stay to straighten the forestay which would be highly desirable when going to windward. Look at Sigma rigging to see how relatively simple resolving the engineering is. A cutter rig has to cope with two different pressures occuring around the upper section of the mast and has rigging to compensate for that which makes it difficult to simply tension the backstay. (Would be interested to know of a cutter with backstay tensioner)
The forestay on my rig will flex in a beautiful parabola when going to windward (reasonably decent blow) and there's nothing I can do about it.
The weight of rigging (9x10mm & windage), cost, mast design, sometimes specially cut yankees all make a cutter more expensive, not so fast and not so good pointing.
Jeremy_W
New member
Re: cutter rig on modern light disp?
Fair point about the Sigma (I presume you mean the 33), but it's a fractional rig which not every cruising sailor would like. Also in full windward sailing mode the rig is so tensioned that you cannot open the door to the heads
Fair point about the Sigma (I presume you mean the 33), but it's a fractional rig which not every cruising sailor would like. Also in full windward sailing mode the rig is so tensioned that you cannot open the door to the heads
G
Guest
Guest
I am off an age.
The that can remember a the hassle and troubled of running backstays. What a delight the Folkboat was a when it had no running backstays. Unfortunately its performance was not as good as a cutter, then it came the answer was back to basic engineering, a triangle is the strongest shape that has straight sides.
The masthead rig was born what a weird shape it was but the performance and the ease of handling a especially with a short handed Crew. Don't let's go back to the dark old days
-{)>
The that can remember a the hassle and troubled of running backstays. What a delight the Folkboat was a when it had no running backstays. Unfortunately its performance was not as good as a cutter, then it came the answer was back to basic engineering, a triangle is the strongest shape that has straight sides.
The masthead rig was born what a weird shape it was but the performance and the ease of handling a especially with a short handed Crew. Don't let's go back to the dark old days
-{)>
ParaHandy
Active member
Re: cutter rig on modern light disp?
No, it was a Signa 38 (parked alongside me). The mechanical advantage of it's fractional rig can be easily seen but shutting the loo door??!!
The shape of the Sigma mast top is almost identical to Australian skiff masts which was the subject of a patent taken out by an Aussie. I always wondered who'd copied whom.
No, it was a Signa 38 (parked alongside me). The mechanical advantage of it's fractional rig can be easily seen but shutting the loo door??!!
The shape of the Sigma mast top is almost identical to Australian skiff masts which was the subject of a patent taken out by an Aussie. I always wondered who'd copied whom.
Jeremy_W
New member
Re: cutter rig on modern light disp?
Trust me - the heads door test on the Sigma 33 is well known. Remember that the Sigma 38 has running backstays. If that's your choice it's a great system but again adds complexity to tacking.
Trust me - the heads door test on the Sigma 33 is well known. Remember that the Sigma 38 has running backstays. If that's your choice it's a great system but again adds complexity to tacking.
alant
Active member
Re: cutter rig on modern light disp?
Re: Fractional Rigs, anyone got anything good to say about Bavaria's?
Re: Fractional Rigs, anyone got anything good to say about Bavaria's?
zefender
Active member
Re: Fractional Bavarias
Yes, (and the loo door can open and shut too!)
Yes, (and the loo door can open and shut too!)