Cutless housing removal

MM5AHO

MM5AHO

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This type of cutless bearing housing has two machine screws.
Does the whole bearing housing also screw into the stern tube?
I'm part way through refurbishing my drivetrain, and ought to change the bearing. After removing the 2 screws the housing is still pretty solid. I suspect and it has been suggested that it then screws out? Anyone have one like this? Boat is Rival 32.
 

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Why do you need to remove the housing? If you remove the shaft you should be able to draw and replace the cutless bearing, leaving the housing undisturbed.

p.s. Unless you have an exceptionally large amount of play of the shaft, chances are that you might not even need to change the bearing. If there is a good flow of water going through it a cutless bearing lasts for a very long time.
 
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MM5AHO said:
This type of cutless bearing housing has two machine screws.
Does the whole bearing housing also screw into the stern tube?
I'm part way through refurbishing my drivetrain, and ought to change the bearing. After removing the 2 screws the housing is still pretty solid. I suspect and it has been suggested that it then screws out? Anyone have one like this? Boat is Rival 32.
Click to expand...

Yes it will just unscrew, but you will need a bit of grunt to get it moving. Remember it has been on there for 30 odd years and will be stuck on with sealer and probably some caulking cotton. So a big pair of stilsons will help.

Much easier to replace the cutless with it off, particularly if you have access to a press.
 
It might not be a cutlass but a Stuart (turner) housing which uses a bush without the outer tube found on a cutlass bearing
They were normally just pressed in the housing not sure if the bushes are still available they came in imperial sizes only 5/8 & 3/4 fitted one housing 1” and 1 1/8 the larger
The housing was screwed onto the stern tube with fixing screws only stopping the housing from turning
The hexagon shape round the shaft is a definite give away so it is a Stuart
Neil who posts here should be able to sort you out with a new one or west of Scotland engineering
More info on sterngear from vic s website
 
Definitely not an ST as you can clearly see the cutless in the photo - too long anyway. The bushes for ST are still available although I had mine machined to take a shortened cutless bearing. Same at the other end, removing the white metal bearing and replacing with a cutless, as well as reducing the external diameter to take a Volvo seal.
 
The housing in the photo looks similar to mine. If you undo the two bolts you should be able to unscrew the whole housing with the cutlass bearing in it. Use stilcens to get a grip on the housing. Once it's undone you will need a press to push out the old bearing and push the new one in.
 
I had that type on an old Cobra 850. I undid the two screws and gently turned the housing. It just came off in my hand taking the threaded end of the sterntube with it. :( Had to then chop out the rest of the sterntube and replace it with new and glass it all in.
 
Tranona said:
Definitely not an ST as you can clearly see the cutless in the photo - too long anyway. The bushes for ST are still available although I had mine machined to take a shortened cutless bearing. Same at the other end, removing the white metal bearing and replacing with a cutless, as well as reducing the external diameter to take a Volvo seal.
Click to expand...
I am pleased to hear you can still get the Stuart bush but am surprised that there was adequate material in the housing to machine and also the Stuart bush had as I recall much larger OD than the cutlass available unless of course you started with a white metal unit
 
scottie said:
I am pleased to hear you can still get the Stuart bush but am surprised that there was adequate material in the housing to machine and also the Stuart bush had as I recall much larger OD than the cutlass available unless of course you started with a white metal unit
Click to expand...

I was not clear - there was a liner inserted into the housing at the rear to take a standard 1" cutless and the front housing had the white metal removed and the housing turned down to take the Volvo seal. Been like it since 1995.
 
Did mine a couple of years ago which is similar to yours. Mine were silicon bronze bolts, with the nuts on the inside. The bronze cutlass housing unscrewed from the stern tube using stilcens padded with some thick fabric to prevent marking the housing, then got the cutlass pressed out and refitted by an engineering shop.
I had to completely remove the stern tube and stuffing box to refit, as I would never have got a good seal with sealant than if I had to screw the cutlass housing back onto the stern tube. I first screwed the stern tube into the cutlass housing, using CT1 on the threads and where it fitted through the hull,then pushed the whole section through the hull and bolted it back into place without disturbing the sealant,then screwed the stuffing box onto the stern tube on the inside until the stuffing box was in the correct position to be bolted back into place. Sounds more complicated than it actually was.
 
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Here's the rest of the story so far.
The screws in the cutless bearing housing came out easily, but I hadn't figured out that the housing also screws on. That'll be next week when there again. No nuts fell as far as I can tell, I suspect the screws went into fibreglass?

The gland system was in poor shape, so I took it home and tidied it up in the workshop. It's now ready to reinstall, and a new rubber tube between the gland housing and the stern tube, new packing (the rings were not cut right either). It hadn't leaked though, and I haven't tightened the gland nut for at least 6 years. The old packing didn't look so bad, but why not replace not I'm this far.
The rubber tube looks bad, but after I got it off it doesn't seem so bad, but I have a new one to fit (Norris).

Next issue is that the prop has had its day. Red coppery colour in the chips that are so easy to take off the thinnest sections, and after polishing it just doesn't look right. Blotchy, a few pits and this brittleness suggest that at 45 years service, seeing two engines, time to retire it. But what with? A straight like for like or a fancy folding / feathering type? Could I use the extra speed (of course, its a Rival, slow!) Do I think that worth the difference in price (c £300 or so for same type, but not sure about low drag types, maybe £1500-2k?)
If you're interested the old one is a 15"x12 bronze prop, and did 45 years without the benefit of any anodes, on a stainless shaft. It saw three prop nuts in the time, and the current has only done 1 year (stainless, home made).
 
Skatt said:
The bronze cutlass housing unscrewed from the stern tube using stilcens padded with some thick fabric to prevent marking the housing,
Click to expand...
That's good. If there's one thing I hate to see it's fittings mauled by Stillsons. A piece of leather works well also.
 
MM5AHO said:
Next issue is that the prop has had its day. Red coppery colour in the chips that are so easy to take off the thinnest sections, and after polishing it just doesn't look right. Blotchy, a few pits and this brittleness suggest that at 45 years service, seeing two engines, time to retire it. But what with? A straight like for like or a fancy folding / feathering type? Could I use the extra speed (of course, its a Rival, slow!) Do I think that worth the difference in price (c £300 or so for same type, but not sure about low drag types, maybe £1500-2k?)
Click to expand...

You will get a definite improvement in both sailing and motoring performance if you invest in something like a Featherstream 3 bladed feathering prop. Only you can decide if it is worth the premium. In its favour is the fact that once you have fitted it the gains are there for ever and require no effort or skill on your part!

Just a simple comparison. My cruising chute cost over £3k with the hardware. Used about 8 times last season and gives up to 1 knot extra in light airs plus a lot of fun. The FlexoFold 2 blade cost around £1k 7 years ago and gives up 1/2 knot extra in light airs under sail every time I sail, plus better (marginal) motoring performance.

Oh so difficult to justify spending on a boat in terms of definable benefit.
 
From notes I made when mine was changed, it is very likely the same model on your Rival: -



1. There is a flange fitting behind the prop which is held on with 2 bolts
2. Remove the bolts
3. The flange fitting is threaded into the stern tube
4. Rotate it anti clockwise as you look at it
5. Apparently there is an internal notch which stops it rotating clockwise.
6. There may be a spacer between the flange fitting and keel (on my boat there was)
7. Inside there is a retaining spring ring and lock screw (grub screw)
8. Remove these
9. Tap out cutless bearing towards rudder. One owner seems to have tapped out his cutless bearing to the stern, another had to cut the bearing inside and then fold it over to break the adhesion to the stern tube

I'll email over the notes.
 
Having swapped out a cutlass bearing on a R32:
The bolts are just threaded into the fibreglass of the keel, mine were a Whitworth 3/8th thread and the thread was not in a good shape, I re-lined with epoxy filler and re-cut the threads. Do ensure that you put sealant on the bolts when replacing as the threaded tube in the fibreglass is open at the inboard end - water ingress into the boat will occur if no sealant used (ask me how I found out...).
The cutlass is likely to be a solid rubber unit, friction fit, only removable with a press. You may be able to source a direct replacement but word has it you cannot. In which case Lake Engineering (there may be others) can fit a 'modern' cutlass into your housing or you may choose the slightly more expensive option offered by French Marine (and possibly others), see:
https://www.frenchmarine.com/product/Stuart-Turner-outboard-bearing-1219-234
Do use a credible supplier, there is discussion on the RoA facebook site from a sailor who had to have a new cutlass fitted overseas (directly into the stern tube, different design) and it is likely that the supplier used one of approximately the correct external diameter (suspect metric not imperial o.d.) as a consequence of which the stern tube has now split...
 
RivalRedwing said:
The cutlass is likely to be a solid rubber unit, friction fit, only removable with a press. You may be able to source a direct replacement but word has it you cannot. In which case Lake Engineering (there may be others) can fit a 'modern' cutlass into your housing or you may choose the slightly more expensive option offered by French Marine (and possibly others), see:
Click to expand...


What you are describing is a Stuart Turner bearing as discussed above.

However as the Op's photo clearly shows it is not one of those but a conventional cutless bearing.
 
Tranona said:
What you are describing is a Stuart Turner bearing as discussed above.

However as the Op's photo clearly shows it is not one of those but a conventional cutless bearing.
Click to expand...

With respect, the OPs photograph shows a cutless bearing which is identical to the one that I removed and which I described above. I am not to fussed as to who made it. That said, when I replaced the rubber cutless bearing on my R32 some years ago the supplier (Fairways Marine as I recall) did describe it as a 'Stuart Turner'. My most recent cutless replacement on an R34 was of similar, all rubber, design but Lake Engineering steered me towards a more modern replacement.
 
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