Customs exorcised

[Boat44]

Has anybody read this blog? What do people think?

Not one to usually get excited by this stuff, I can't help thinking "what a load of PR spin".

Just because the Customs had a very unfortunate incident 15 years ago; that then gives them the right to treat the rest of us as criminals!!!!

I thought our justice system was inncoent until proven guilty?

Whilst I have no reason to doubt that a lot of drugs come in by yacht and I for one would like to see that stopped, the Customs approach should be intelligence lead not Mob handed lead, which from the reports it seems to be.

As others have said, there is far far far more to be gained by getting the marine community on side, rather than alienate them. This approach combined with eborders is only going to do one this, and unfortunately that will be to the detriment of us all.

But then again, maybe I'm assuming too much by using the word "intellegance".

( I do sometime wonder where RYA loyalties lie, and how intouch with there members they are. One just has to recal the start of the eborders discussions!)

 

[footsoldier]

Has anybody read this blog?

???

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Has anybody read this blog?

Which blog?

 

[Tranona]

Have read it and agree with what you say. Have posted a comment on the blog, so will see what response (if any) there is.

 

[sailorman]

Have read it and agree with what you say. Have posted a comment on the blog, so will see what response (if any) there is.

Blog ??????

 

[DJE]

Blog ??????

This one??


"Mr Lewis was suitably impressed with what the men on the cutters have to face especially in light of the fact that they are not armed. The impressive-looking gun mounted on the bow of the UKBA cutters is in fact a fire hose posing as a cannon."

So who are the guys in black with guns who've been reported here as boarding yachts recently?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I can't help thinking "what a load of PR spin".

It is unfortunate that the one example the author decided to use was of an intelligence led operation, before he gets back to the usual UKBA routine of boarding 'innocent' yachts. If he had illustrated his story with tales of how much contraband was found on the yachts randomly searched, it would have made a better read and justified the inconvenience the boarded suffer.

A very poor article IMHO.

So who are the guys in black with guns who've been reported here as boarding yachts recently?

MOD plods, Royal Marines and local police armed units trying to live the dream.

 

[sailorman]

This one??


"Mr Lewis was suitably impressed with what the men on the cutters have to face especially in light of the fact that they are not armed. The impressive-looking gun mounted on the bow of the UKBA cutters is in fact a fire hose posing as a cannon."

So who are the guys in black with guns who've been reported here as boarding yachts recently?

Mr Lewis is very likely not to have me as a member for much longer.
(36 yrs continuous membership)
I believe i should support the RYA as our National Body but what do they actually do for us/ who do they Represent

 

[johnabbott893]

What proportion of random yacht searches result in a large drugs find? You never see stats becuase it is probably close to zero.

How effective in reducing the overall drug problem are seizures of drugs from yachts? Apparently about 32 tonnes per year comes in by yacht according to the blog. Is this spread across all types of yacht or is there some profiling that can be done? Are the UKBA people stupid or just gung ho?

Rather than doing the macho bit from a Cutter would it not be cheaper, simpler and more effective to catch the criminals on the jetty. Maybe there is a proud tradition of Excise men to be upheld.

If they creep up on me in the dark I will 'shoot' first and ask questions later. They are obviously scared of fire bombs so that looks like a weapon of choice. Easy to make and just the thing to deter a night time pirate raid.

 

[deuc02]

This one??


"Mr Lewis was suitably impressed with what the men on the cutters have to face especially in light of the fact that they are not armed. The impressive-looking gun mounted on the bow of the UKBA cutters is in fact a fire hose posing as a cannon."

So who are the guys in black with guns who've been reported here as boarding yachts recently?

So it looks like the RYA have been suitably won over. I'm guessing that it doesn't take much to impress Mr Lewis.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Beggars belief quite frankly. I'm very disappointed in Dick Durham for writing such stuff.

Not sure how to get hold of Mr Lewis but I would suggest he spends a day with a fire crew in a deprived area, a day with the police in a city area, even a Friday or Saturday evening in A & E in some places, never mind Afghanistan or Iraq. Wouldn't they love a cushy number like that.

It's always sad when anyone loses their life especially in their prime but, if we have to go back to 1996 to find an example, I hardly think that it's a high risk profession. I would be very surprised if the mortality rate is noticeably higher than in an office environment, never mind on a farm or building site, given the number of sad deaths due to cancer, car accidents, etc.

 

[Doghousekeeper]

What proportion of random yacht searches result in a large drugs find? You never see stats becuase it is probably close to zero.

About the same as the number of weapons found at random security searches before boarding a flight, I expect. I find those a real irritation too ... but without them I'd feel a lot less safe. The point of random searches is surely the deterrent factor. Intelligence-led operations must always be more effective and take priority, but I believe there is a place for random searches too in the world today and provided the operations are handled courteously and fairly (innocent until proven guilty etc), unless we have something to hide we should accept that they are there to protect our society and put up with the minor frustration of being searched

 

[DJE]

Beggars belief quite frankly. I'm very disappointed in Dick Durham for writing such stuff.

Not sure how to get hold of Mr Lewis but I would suggest he spends a day with a fire crew in a deprived area, a day with the police in a city area, even a Friday or Saturday evening in A & E in some places, never mind Afghanistan or Iraq. Wouldn't they love a cushy number like that.

It's always sad when anyone loses their life especially in their prime but, if we have to go back to 1996 to find an example, I hardly think that it's a high risk profession. I would be very surprised if the mortality rate is noticeably higher than in an office environment, never mind on a farm or building site, given the number of sad deaths due to cancer, car accidents, etc.

Remember this story about their bonuses? There was some jumped up shop stewrd type on the Today programme saying he was just trying to protect his staff who were "Putting their lives on the line".

 

[rallyveteran]

About the same as the number of weapons found at random security searches before boarding a flight, I expect. I find those a real irritation too ... but without them I'd feel a lot less safe.

I only get searched if the beeper goes off.

The whitewash in Durham's blog is supporting the equivalent of searching people when the beeper hasn't sounded and in a much more costly environment. Has anybdy got any idea what the cost of the average random boarding is, and figures for the amount seized or the number of prosecutions?

 

[johnabbott893]

About the same as the number of weapons found at random security searches before boarding a flight, I expect. I find those a real irritation too ... but without them I'd feel a lot less safe. The point of random searches is surely the deterrent factor.

Ah deterrence. Now there is an interesting psychological philosophy. In the superpower confrontation days it was the deterrent effect of nuclear destruction or Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD). I happen to believe that it worked.

Random weapon searches before flights are pointless in preventing a terrorist event. Terrorists only have to be successful once. The security forces every time. Nonetheless, they do make passengers feel safer. What is more, they are reasonably easy to undertake and have a reasonable chance of detecting a weapon.

The random yacht boardings are pathetically ineffectual in their ability to detect stuff like drugs and weapons. They have no deterrent effect. Now, the real point may be that the random searches are being conducted to protect the intelligence sources; that’s something we will never know and the Cutter crews won’t either.

 

[puddock]

Out on a limb here but .........
On the two occassions I have been boarded, I have found them to be very pleasant and courteous. I never felt intimidated in any way.
However, I accept that others may have had different experiences, so I will continue to sit on the fence.
Maybe working 13 years in West Africa has desensitized me to militarised authority, I don't know.

I do agree on the frustrations of the "targets" of such searches etc but it is not my area of expertise.

I would, however, advise folks not to take their frustrations out on the boarding party - they probably don't want to be raking around your boat any more than you want them to be there.

 

[timbartlett]

Mr Lewis was suitably impressed with what the men on the cutters have to face

I, too, would be pretty unimpressed by the gullibility of the RYA's government affairs man if this were true. But this doesn't sound to me as though it came straight from the horse's mouth.
If Gus Lewis had actually said that, I'm sure it would have been written up as something like "Gus said he was impressed" or even ""I was really impressed", said Gus".
The formal "Mr Lewis" and that heavily slanted "suitably impressed" (particularly when the subject is so spectacularly unimpressive) make me wonder whether the source was UKBA, rather than RYA

 

[deuc02]

I, too, would be pretty unimpressed by the gullibility of the RYA's government affairs man if this were true. But this doesn't sound to me as though it came straight from the horse's mouth.
If Gus Lewis had actually said that, I'm sure it would have been written up as something like "Gus said he was impressed" or even ""I was really impressed", said Gus".
The formal "Mr Lewis" and that heavily slanted "suitably impressed" (particularly when the subject is so spectacularly unimpressive) make me wonder whether the source was UKBA, rather than RYA

Well it's certainly written as though it's a direct quote

 

[timbartlett]

Well it's certainly written as though it's a direct quote

Please don't accuse me of being picky, but it isn't.

If it was a direct quote it would be "I was impressed", said Mr Lewis. Strictly speaking, a direct quote has to be a verbatim account of what the speaker actually said.

If it was an indirect quote, it would be Mr Lewis said he was impressed. It would be OK for an indirect quote to be a paraphrase of what was actually said, but it shouldn't distort the meaning

But this says Mr Lewis was impressed There is no indication who made the claim that Mr Lewis was impressed. It could have been Mr Lewis himself, but it is at least equally possible that it was a UKBA press officer. The insertion of the word "suitably" makes it sound as though it came from someone with a predetermined belief that he ought to be impressed -- i.e. it points towards a UKBA press officer.

To protect the delicate sensibilities of the civil servants on this forum, I am not accusing the press officer of lying. I am merely suggesting that Gus Lewis might have been expressing a polite interest, but that his expressions could have been misconstrued.

 

[sailorman]

Please don't accuse me of being picky, but it isn't.

If it was a direct quote it would be "I was impressed", said Mr Lewis. Strictly speaking, a direct quote has to be a verbatim account of what the speaker actually said.

If it was an indirect quote, it would be Mr Lewis said he was impressed. It would be OK for an indirect quote to be a paraphrase of what was actually said, but it shouldn't distort the meaning

But this says Mr Lewis was impressed There is no indication who made the claim that Mr Lewis was impressed. It could have been Mr Lewis himself, but it is at least equally possible that it was a UKBA press officer. The insertion of the word "suitably" makes it sound as though it came from someone with a predetermined belief that he ought to be impressed -- i.e. it points towards a UKBA press officer.

To protect the delicate sensibilities of the civil servants on this forum, I am not accusing the press officer of lying. I am merely suggesting that Gus Lewis might have been expressing a polite interest, but that his expressions could have been misconstrued.

the RYA might just "Brows" the fora & might even like the opportunity to reply & put the record straight as it were .
But dont hold your breath