curtis and pape 1970 iroko on oak 32ft ketch

[yourmomm]

hi. i am in negotiations to buy this boat, which currently lies near gibraltar. i will of course survey her fully, as i need to sail her back to the uk should the sale proceed. however, i know that her fastenings are iron and that she has never (so far) required refastening. the owner states he contacted the now sadly-defunct curtis and pape yard about this very issue some 10 years back, and they informed him that in 80+years of boatmaking, not one of their boats EVER required refastening! can this be true? can anyone offer any advice as to what to look out for apart from the obvious (and very easily paint-over-able....) rust streaks on the hull, before i shell out for the full survey (i have already lost £500 on survey fees for boats whose sales fell through!!). any other advice forum members can offer me as to a diy "preliminary" wooden boat survey for boats of this age would be gratefully received!! many thanks in advance to the forum.

 

[joliette]

Some more information about the type of construction would useful, as I don't know this particular type. However, assuming the planking is fastened to wooden frames with copper boat nails, then this isolates any problems with iron fastenings to areas such as the keel bolts, floors and chainplates. A good look through the bilge will give you an idea of the condition of any steel floors and their fastenings. If the ends of the nuts and bolts securing the floors are wasting away then this is a good indicator that they will also be wasting in the planking. The same is also true of the chain plates. So, this is something that you could do a visual inspection on without lifting the boat. If the boat is out of the water then, yes, have a good look for rust streaks and also do a hammer test for loose planking. The keel bolts really need to be removed to check their condition, although an X-Ray is a good alternative (if you can find someone to do it!). If you can observe the boat being lifted in slings then you can check the ballast keel join for any signs of movement, indicating potential problems with the keel bolts, as you can't tell when the boat is ashore resting on its keel. All that said, just take her out for a test sail to windward in a good blow, so that she's well heeled over. If there are any significant weaknesses in the fastenings they will soon show up as they'll be plenty of water ingress to contend with!

 

[rjp]

I have a 32ft Buchanan, iroko on Canadian Rock Elm believed launched 1972, so a similar age to the one you are looking at. She has galvanised bolts through galvanised steel floors and when I removed a dozen or so to do some rib repairs last summer they were in pretty good condition - not much galv. left but only light rusting. I had her surveyed last week when I showed them to the surveyer who pronounced them to be fine. He removed a couple of loose bungs and though there was some slight rusting of the heads he was unconcerned by this and reckoned they were good for quite a few years yet.

John

 

[cameocrew]

My boat is a 38ft curtis and pape cutter 32mm carvel iroko on oak frames
built 1974. Fastened with copper roves and gal steel bolts. Ive just replaced
All chain plate and knee bolts (all corroded ,some badly) pulled selected
keel bolts and found minor necking and guess all will require replacing
within 5 years. Boat timber is in remarkable condition with no rot although
i had to insert some' graving' blocks in way of chainplate fixings.
That indicates the 80+years claim by C&P. a bit off the mark.