currently boring

[jfm]

Re: fairline winge

Nope you haven't missed anything. But dealing with this Fairline-and-their-dealers thing is like a trip down memory lane to 1970's british leyland or something.

They wont believe a customer's diagnosis of the probelm (even if customer has a degree in engineering) so the question of putting the part on DHL doesn't arise for them. The boat has to be taken to dealer for diagnosis. Then they will order the part, no express delivery (no doubt THEY would call it express, but I wouldn't). Then and only then does it get fixed.

Whereas, what any smart person would do is add £5k or £10k to the price of the boat then offer slick service for first season. Put people on planes with parts to fix stuff, even if questionable diagnoisis - the £5k covers th cost. Generally pull finger out. Then people would say "Yeah fairline were fab, this thing broke and they put a guy on a plane fixed in under 24 hours bla bla". With that reputation no-one would care about the £5k/£10k price rise. At £1mill for a boat including its mooring, buyers aren't too price sensitive but are VERY service sensitive.

And now, to add insult to injury, I am out of pocket. Fairline Oundle say the frecnh dealer has to fill in some form to start the refund process.. I have emailed dealer twice asking them to do it but not even courtesy of a reply yet, let alone action. I stress, there is no dispute here that a warranty repair was needed. The Frecnh dealer has absolutely confirmed the diagnosis was correct, the voltage regulator was bust - no output from it and no lights working on boat.

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[PaulF]

Re: fairline winge

I wonder what the MD of Fairline would do if he saw the poor reflection on his company with these posts. I would be knocking heads together.

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[jfm]

Re: fairline winge

Just got a fax from Fairline (sent to French dealer but forwarded by them to me) saying they will only reimburse the cost price of the spare part, not the full price that i paid (which included Peters margin). No £££ number mentioned, but i spose I will get £500 of my £600 back. I had no choice but to buy it through Peters, Fairline refused to sell it to me directly. So, someone has made £100 profit at my expense because a £3/4mill boat broke, I am £100 out of pocket and pissed off.

So my advice to fellow forumites, if your fairline breaks under warranty, do not use any of your own initiative to get parts flown around the world, just put up with your boat being out of action during July and let fairline fix it slowly. If you dare to intervene with your own initiative, be prepared for it to cost you.

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[Jim_H]

I'm doing Southwold to Ipswich tomorrow on a raggie to see how the other half live (exist, get by ??). Forecast says 2 - 3 with slight sea we shall probably be a motor boat with an oversized aerial support !

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[Roy]

Boring!!??? Well you have a point. See how a few on this thread suddenly got a wee bit humorous and it all gained reader appeal......? Within a short time its all become BORING.

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[AJW]

Re: fairline winge

I've read your posts with increasingly incredularity and bafflement. How the hell can a manufacturer and distributor of £3/4 mill boats behave like this? Are there so many peeps queueing to buy em that they can treat their existing customers so badly? As you say, at this level price is not a distinguishing factor but customer service surely must be.

I'dve thought a letter to someone senior at Fairline pointing this out might be useful. I'd also thought (mebbe niavely) that at that end of the market the MD should be making a point to know those who spend that much wonger with 'em and make 'em feel loved as part of the deal.

AJ

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: fairline winge

I am incredulous. For £100, not only are they running the risk of losing you as a customer for evermore but they are willing to risk the bad publicity that might ensue. Arrogant tossers!
Re your previous post, my view is that most industrial products, including boats IMHO, are converging in terms of technology, quality and price and one of the few ways left to differentiate your product is through superior service. Its a shame that the boat industry has not realised this yet

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[jfm]

Fairline - short term strategy I guess?

Me too AJW.

I think they are sold out on Sq58s for many months ahead. I dunno for sure, just hearsay. So they perhaps think they can afford to give sloppy service?

But even if sold out, pissing off customers isn't smart imho. They should take easy opportunities to "bank" customer goodwill rather than stir up badwill, becuase need it for the next recession. Goodwill between boatbuyer and boatbuilders is a long term thing, perhaps a 15year relationship. If I were fairline I would remeber that JFM could be one of the people still buying boats in the next recession when I'm not sold out.....

I could fire off letters to MD , but can't be bothered. After we bought the boat a consultant firm of theirs called and did a telephone survey. I spent 20mins giving them positive views on the product but negative about the company. Nothing has changed though, so they must have disagreed!

I love the boat but not the company, if you see what I mean. So I have no brand loyalty. I think the Sq58 is best boat in class, hence we bought it. It was a design based decision, not brand and not price - it cost £100k more than a 'hattan 56 frexample. But if someone else brings out a better product, I will desert Fairline without a moment's hesitation. Until then I'll hang in and manage the spare parts international logistics myself!



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[jfm]

world of fairline

Yup. It's a one track strategy. I tend to buy stuff because I like the product. Eg we got the boat purely becuase we think it's best product. We buy despite the service. Bit like a car, I would tend to buy it cos I like the car, not becos the dealer is nice. But Fairline have all eggs in this one basket called product design. If technology/design/quality converge as you correctly say, service becomes a differentiator.

Fairline are at risk here. Mebbe they think fix the service only when needed, but they wont be able to, customer goodwill in this sector is long term thing. I spent £700 on motorbike to Oundle plus my secretary's airfare/ taxi to deliver a sodding transformer to France, and I spent £600 on the transformer, so I'm £1300 down, then I get told there will be only partial refund of the £600. Amortising that badwill by passage of time takes years. Or it could take 2 mins if someone from Oundle called me (tel 07768 055211 and warranty claim reference WAN/11162) to say sorry and a £624.42 cheque is in the post.

But Fairline will only notice the badwill either if there's a recession or if their product design lead (imho) disappears. Good luck to em!

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: world of fairline

In the past I have had the same attitude with some of my suppliers. Like Fairline the management is remote from the customer and as long as the product keeps shifting out of the door, why worry? What it needs is for the Fairline management to talk direct to customers occasionally
In fairness to Fairline, during the short time I was in Mallorca with my Targa 48, I found the service from Peters in Cala d'Or to be pretty good. Maybe its Arie de Boom who need a kick up the backside as well

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[jfm]

Re: world of fairline

It's pretty near impossible to talk to Fairline. They want the public to deal only with dealers. Nowhere on the fairline.com site is there any link or phone number to contact fairline.



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[whisper]

Re: world of fairline

That in itself speaks volumes on their attitude towards their customers and faith in their products. They are obviously afraid of having to deal with people who may have problems so they hide behind the dealer.

They are not the only ones that do this in the industry however, so it is probably an indictment of boatbuilders in general.

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[ArthurWood]

Re: fairline winge

But why didn't you speak to F's MD at the start of this fiasco?

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[SparklyBlueThing]

Re: Agreed

Ok...here's one for the Newbies... Not sure if this is a tale of stupidity or derring do... you decide!

Bought my first boat last year. No experience of powerboats... but having sailed a few dinghies 20 years ago, I guessed I knew the ropes. Trawled the ads on YBW for a few weeks until I came across something that looked like a good deal... remarkably inexpensive really! Never one to miss out on a bargain, I jumped in the car and drove 50 miles to the broker to look at it.

Moored in a sleepy village on the Thames was.... THE BEAST! A 1979 Larson powerboat with a 5.7litre petrol V8 Mercruiser dropped in the back. She was tired, dirty, damp and infested with spiders. Her covers were obviously leaky, she didn't have a trailer and there was nowhere on the Thames to let rip with the engine and try it out. But she had lots of seats... and then there was the lovely sparkly blue GRP finish that looked a bit like the inside of an 80s disco to consider, so...

Put in a silly offer and went home to forget about her. All went quiet for a week, then got the call to say the owner wanted shot. For some reason the punters weren't lining up to snap her up!

No idea what I was buying to be honest. It was only when I got her home and out on the open water that I discovered she'd do 45 knots! (Beats dinghy sailing any day!) She's a blast. Only trouble is, I have to fill the bowrider with jerry cans to slake her thirst for go-juice!

Having read some of the old threads on this board, I'm starting to feel a bit dubious about her import status. Had no idea about this issue at the time. The boat didn't even come with a manual. She came from a reputable broker (no names), but when I asked how I could be sure the seller really owned her, the broker said he could vouch for him personally, and I'd just have to take it on trust that the deal was legit.

I've got no reason to believe she's nicked. (Wouldn't have had anything to do with her if there was even a hint of that.) Several people around the marina where she was moored said they knew the owner and had good things to say about him and the boat. She doesn't have a CE plate. So was she imported early enough? Who knows. (...and who really cares.) When I've finished with her she'll either be thrashed to death, or a cheap bargain for some other nutter!

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[jfm]

Fairline redeem themselves

All fixed. A helpful chap from Fairline just called me. He apologised that I had been mucked about and told me a cheque will be mailed to me for the £624 spare part that I bought plus an additional amount towards the travel/shipping costs I incurred. He also said that if any more mission-critical parts fail during the warranty period, I should contact him and he will sort it out including air-couriering the parts immediately. A most pleasant and helpful chap. Goodwill all restored, I do like a happy ending!

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[tcm]

Re: Fairline redeem themselves

hm

jfm has special status as one of few who have managed to avoid paying 100% for a fairline before it leaves the factory. For other buggers, there are indeed a few nice people in fairline and sprinled over the dealerships, but it ain't enough imho, and needs taking by the scruff of the neck so support is seen as "good" rather than "rubbish" *.

Talk to med dealers who wil confirm that it takes more weeks for fairline to sendem a part from Uk than the number of days it takes for yank manufacturers to send spares from the states.

There's lots of support for the brand (incl from me as well as obv jfm) but with crappo aftermarket support then all they have to do is have a few duff products (sq 52? targa 52, targa 62) which don't move and life gets tough, as it did last recession when Peters snapped up the uk and spanish distie rights. Now not at all sure that fairline can deal direct (hence no phone numbers?) as it might violate Peters contract. It wd be great if there was a support line at fairline for buying bits, pronto, which would (have been) be great.

* good service needs a bunch of people on phones, incl one or two experts, not an ansaphone cept when closed, manned between specificed times like (say) 9am-5pm mon-fri or mon-sat in season. The phone gets ansxwered within 3 rings by a human, and you need as many peeps to handle the phones. If v busy, then give a reference number and callem back. Some take orders for bits. All take details of boat and address, for mailing, invites etc, hence it becomes a profit centre. Many but not all calls wd refer back to dealer for training or a fix. But in instances like jfms's and lots of others, they know what they want, they're happy to fit, they just want the parts, asap, not in 2or 3 months.

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[adarcy]

Re: Sq 52 ?

Matt

<<a few duff products (sq 52?>>

I see the ? but are people saying the Sq52 is not up to much?
I don't think they sold v well perhaps due to high initial price but, then again, I read they were not cheap enough to build. I always rather fancied one, 2 staterooms + box room is enough for us. They started the styling genre of the 62 and 58 and so non-cogniscenti might think one was as rich as jfm if one could scrape enough together to get a 52.

Have you heard a 610 or (if lucky) D12 Sq52 is not perceived as a good buy?

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[tcm]

Re: Sq 52 ?

The sq52, like the 43ac a few years earlier, was ditched after only a short run.

The not-bargain pricing for only two cabins (ok, staterooms) is a bit of a killer against the competition - knocks out far more buyers than it attracts.

Dunno if this means it is deffo not a good buy - but there wasn't a long run, and hence any production facilty wd be less experienced in building those early ones than the later ones of a longer production run.

Anyhow, i've put the mockers on it, now you aren't sure, so er it's already devalued a bit innit? That's how the market works i spose.

For whatit's worth, the curr squaddie design was not originated there - there's a big one-off flybridge with exaccerly the same feature, copied er i mean er research showed considerable attraction for this sort of styling detail, ahem.
Whats a 610?

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[jfm]

Re: Sq 52 ?

The 52 was not a big seller becos, as mentioned, only 2 cabins, and perhaps pricing. But AFAIK there was nothing wrong with it engineeringwise. Nor hullwise, it is the usual good Olesinski stuff. Hence if you like the accomodation then would be a very good buy imho.

I'm not sure how many built. Only in production 2.5 years. I spose they musta sold 20 or so, that's the sorta number that constitutes a flop, but dunno. For comparison, the Sq58 was introduced end of 2001 and ours (Feb 2004) was number 74, so that's say 25-30 a season, and that's regarded as a successful design

As ever, get a later one, so they have deglitched the design/build. Rememebr they're built sequentially, not side by side (though there is overlap). So imho the only boats to avoid badly are build numbers 1 to five, or maybe 10 if you're cautious. Genrally deglitching is less significant becos it is all CAD so at least all the parts fit together ok.

I would get the D12s not 610s, as the clean running and mpg of the D12EDC is outstanding. You hear bad things about Volvo including on this forum but none of that applies to these engines ('cept parts prices...!). The D12s are also very quiet. Not sure of details, but D12 might be derived from 610 rahter than all new, so praps not much difference? Anyway if you got D12s it would be a later build of the boat.

I would have sed wot you sed, that the 52 was the first of the 58-62 genre. I think the 52 looks great. Dunno which boat tcm is referring to??

I still think the squadrons have the best, most-flowing fybridge design in class. The spaces just work well with large groups on board. So you gotta decide if the 2 cabin is ok for you, (or get a rare 3 cabin), but subject to that it's a good boat imho and all power to tcm's elbow in driving price down

Finally, even the 2 cabiner had a crew cabin at the back,, didn't it?

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[tcm]

Re: Sq 52 ?

agreed squaddies goodlooking. Boat international from a few years back will have a pic of the source design with that foward window wavy line. Ask fairline, bound to have it.

Not at all sure bout the CAD stuff means it all fits together! Even if everything is Cad (which it ain't) then manual layup and screwing together and wibbly moulds means it might fit or might not. SOME cad allows crashes to be detected, lots not . No CAD will allow/help "limit fits" (which is what most of us mean by "things fitting") so a 5m metre gap is always + 0 to +2 mill (frexample) and the things fitting innem 0 to -2 mm and the ability of any manufactuers to restrict and restrict the tolerance means less and less gap/floppiness/silicon mastic. Clever design avoids having to hit too many such gaps, but sometime impossible to avoid, like car bonnets and boots where constant gap means high tolerance, and uneven gap means it's an old jag or bentley.


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