Cunning table supports? And who to make them?

[prv]

In the pub earlier tonight, my dad announced his intention to have a new saloon table for Ariam built. Usually I do all the woodwork on the boat (I built both chart table and saloon table on KS) but I have many other jobs on the list for Ariam (I also don't have any great sense of urgency about this one as I'm thirty years younger than him and have no problem sliding round the narrow end of the table he wants to eliminate ). If he wants to adopt the job that's fine by me, but we need to work out some design details to take to his joiner chappy.

In particular, the current supports for the lifting leaves are annoying. They're manufactured telescopic struts, and because they need to be lifted past the locking point for the catches to engage, the table ends up sagging a bit. You also need to disengage both of them simultaneously while lifting the table or else they re-latch, and hence you almost need three hands to do the job.

The obvious solution would be the traditional hinged wooden knees, but I thought I'd ask if anyone has any clever possibilities I haven't thought of.

Apart from the slight reduction in length to let my dad into his seat, and the inch of extra depth in the bottle locker so that wine bottles will actually fit in it, the new surface instead of the current scratched and scarred one, and a slight increase in sturdiness since a saloon table is inevitably a bracing point in a seaway, I guess the design will otherwise be similar to the existing. But if anyone can suggest any other points we should consider in designing a saloon table, I'd be interested to hear them.

Also, any recommendations for someone to do the work?

Pete

 

[KenMcCulloch]

Ours just has battens that slide in ad out to support the folding leaf.

 

[prv]

Ours just has battens that slide in ad out to support the folding leaf.

I guess the rest of the table is not folding, so there's room for the battens underneath it? Ours is the classic arrangement with a narrow fixed strip along the middle and a large lowering leaf each side. The battens could only be about six inches long in total.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

Expect you will find more sophisticated automatic struts from furniture hardware suppliers or even caravan shops. However thee swivelling wooden brackets located in positive stops take a lot of beating for simplicity and reliability.

 

[Sandy]

Mine is on a hinge so you can lift it out of the way and attach it to the wall vertically. The legs all swing neatly away, they are flat, giving a huge amount of room in the saloon. It is a really good design.

 

[pcatterall]

(I also don't have any great sense of urgency about this one as I'm thirty years younger than him)

What sort of talk is that!!?? ........ Just get on with it !! Honour thy father etc..... you whipper snappers are all the same!!

 

[prv]

Mine is on a hinge so you can lift it out of the way and attach it to the wall vertically. The legs all swing neatly away, they are flat, giving a huge amount of room in the saloon. It is a really good design.

The one I built for Kindred Spirit was a bit like that. Very good in a smaller boat.

In a larger boat like Ariam (34'), a fixed table base is a good thing as it divides up the space and gives you something to lean against at sea. We have no plans to conduct ballroom-dancing sessions on board so don't need to open up an acre of floor space

Pete

 

[prv]

Just get on with it !! Honour thy father etc

I think even my father would prefer that I get on with fitting new batteries, the binnacle, the electrics panel, etc, rather than the table

Pete

 

[Amulet]

Some shots of mine in construction (sorry, don't have any in action). Lopers underneath support a leaf which folds out onto them. Required a bit of precision in making to avoid sag, but the hard bit was cutting the notches for the backflap hinges allowing the leaf to fold upwards and lie on the fixed part. Couldn't quite envisage your setup from your post, so this may not be helpful.
View attachment 40517View attachment 40518

 

[prv]

Couldn't quite envisage your setup from your post, so this may not be helpful.

In that case I must have described it particularly badly, as it's probably the single most common table arrangement on medium-sized yachts

There's a fixed central piece running fore and aft, about six inches wide, with a bottle locker underneath it. Then, hanging down to port and starboard of it are the leaves which lift up to provide the bulk of the table area.

I can't use sliding battens like yours because they could only be six inches long, to fit across the fixed part when the leaves are down.

Pete

 

[Slocumotion]

Could the sliding battens not be housed under the leaves and run through the centre section and into dovetail housings under the opposite leaf? There would only be 1/2 leaf minus 3 inches of support for each - would that suffice? And of course you would have to have both leaves up. Oh, and it would probably be a bit of a faff to raise and lower - 2 person job even.


Oyll get me coat.

 

[BERT T]

Something like this may do your job:
LOCKING TABLE BRACKET.

 

[Amulet]

In that case I must have described it particularly badly, as it's probably the single most common table arrangement on medium-sized yachts

Didn't mean to criticise your descriptive skills, my interpretive skills on the other hand.... Mine's a much smaller boat - so I was thinking differently. Hinged wooden knees seem a nice solution to me.

 

[DownWest]

Yonks ago I was tasked to finish a restaurant and get it open after the builders went bust. The tables were round, but had four drop leaves that folded under to make a square smaller one, for two/four diners. A sample was given with an interesting hinge. In two halves, it was spring loaded in the folded position. When the leaf was bought up, half the hinge folded down to form a right angle to the rest and make it rigid. I imagine these are available to the trade. Since the leaves were quite small and the hinges a bit clunky and knee un-friendly, I reverted to swinging arms to hold them up and plain hinges. Saved a bit of time and money as there were 60 odd tables to run up.

For the OP, why not a diagonal strut that folds in the middle? Also hinged at each end, so that one pushes it up from the locked position, before lowering the leaf.
DW

 

[prv]

For the OP, why not a diagonal strut that folds in the middle? Also hinged at each end, so that one pushes it up from the locked position, before lowering the leaf.

I worry that an errant knee might push the central hinge upwards, instantly collapsing the whole issue into its owner's lap

It sounds like the simple swinging support has not been bettered. That at least will avoid having to communicate a complex design to whoever ends up making the thing.

Speaking of which, any suggestions?

Pete

 

[DownWest]

I worry that an errant knee might push the central hinge upwards, instantly collapsing the whole issue into its owner's lap

It sounds like the simple swinging support has not been bettered. That at least will avoid having to communicate a complex design to whoever ends up making the thing.

Pete[/QUOTE

Might be a way of locking the strut to avoid the 'errant knee syndrom', it would only need to come half way out on the leaf.

The swinging system could fall foul of the width of the centre section compared to the leaves, if only one side is up.

 

[neil1967]

Mine is on a hinge so you can lift it out of the way and attach it to the wall vertically. The legs all swing neatly away, they are flat, giving a huge amount of room in the saloon. It is a really good design.

Any chance of some photos? We have a traditional table in the middle of the saloon, but fancy being able to fold it away to provide more space when we become liveaboards.

Many thanks

Neil

 

[prv]

The swinging system could fall foul of the width of the centre section compared to the leaves, if only one side is up.

I think you must have misunderstood what is meant by the "swinging wooden knees" approach. The two sides are completely independent of each other. I know it works ok as I've been on loads of boats that use it.

Pete