Cummins Engine Model: 6BTA 5.9 M3 year 2000

[derekbland]

Does anyone have knowledge/reputation re the above engines. I think they are only 330HP and so am wondering what they will be like pushing a Sealine F43 through the water. I would like to be able to cruise comfortably at 17/18 knots and be able to do around 26-28kt.

Your thoughts please.

 

[Bouba]

Probably the best engine in the world. Some people get their spares from the American automotive market. It's not a lot of horse power but they are quite torquey so could probably turn large props

 

[derekbland]

Probably the best engine in the world. Some people get their spares from the American automotive market. It's not a lot of horse power but they are quite torquey so could probably turn large props

Thank you. I assume they should be enough for the 17-18kt cruising speed? I know it's difficult unless you know the weight etc.

 

[Bouba]

I have the upgraded 6.7 version but it's in a small semi d
I've seen them in 42 Jeanneau so it probably works

 

[superheat6k]

Probably the best engine in the world. Some people get their spares from the American automotive market. It's not a lot of horse power but they are quite torquey so could probably turn large props

+1

I have the smaller HP 210, but same base 5.9 litre lump.

A million buses can't be wrong.

 

[5teve]

I have a pair of 1997 330 diamond 6btas pushing a 12t 45ft flybridge (over here they have tops and full covers on the flybridge), even with the port turbo screwed it will do 25kts and cruise happily at 18kts. With port turbo sorted I'd be expecting around 27 to 28kts top end.

Maintenance is key especially the aftercooler and the exhaust design. Go to sbmar.com and read read read. Tony is probably the world expert on these engines. Well designed installs and correct maintenance they should see 10000+ hours without breaking a sweat.. I believe Tony has some that have pushed over 20k hours but probably done in a short period of time relatively.

Steve

 

[Portofino]

+1
To Sbmar. Com

With boats it does not matter how many buses Cummings or with MAN trucks are running about with the same block .
This is beacause it’s not the actual internal bits like cranks , bearings ,cam etc that lead to the demise or early demise ,it’s the “ marine aging “
Cummings Buses n MAN trucks , Volvo trucks , Caterpillar earth moving equipment- don,t have seawater intercoolers , heat exchangers ,water pumps or generally run at a constant load ,
The load bit being important in early demise .Its very easy to get into a overload situation with a leisure boat .
Buses , trucks , bulldozers have gearboxes boats don,t .

How ever it’s stiil a good Q to ask
Which is really in the boat context “ is the base engine any good “
Well yes they are .
It’s the “marine bits “ and how those “marine bits “are looked after or have been looked after and as said the instal regarding closeness to overloading , turning that around how much headroom there is between the WOT speed and intended cruise .

Anyways browse Tony’s website .

 

[PCUK]

As said, best engine you can get. All marine spares available from local truck dealer. Cheapest commercial engine to rebuild when needed. If anyone wants a new unused raw water pump complete and ready to fit I've got one here for £400. Was kept on board as a quick change spare but never needed. Never needed anything in fact apart from filters etc.

 

[Dick Atcherley]

I agree with Portofino - it's all the marinising bits that cause problems; I have twin cummins 6bta's with charge-air intercoolers, producing a modest 225hp each. The bits that have given the problems have been the bolt-on marine bits, not the core. Had a cascade of issues caused initially by one of the charge-air intercoolers leaking raw water into the air-side (due to a defective tube-stack) that was initially a bugger to diagnose - at least one well known firm of marine cummins specialists couldn't find the problem and told me I was imagining things - and has made a mess along the way. It was only when the seawater corroded a bloody great hole in the bottom of the intercooler casing (and the resulting loss of charge pressure causes a bloody great smoke screen under load) that the problem became as obvious as the balls on a dog.

They're good motors, but keep an eye on the ancillaries.

 

[burgundyben]

balls on a dog

I recall thinking a while ago that we knew each other, I think I have realised.

The only thing to look out for with these engines is the Cummins parts prices if you happen to need to buy something OEM, for example, exhaust manifold is £2500. Cummins parts were previously very cheap, but when Cummins got a little bit overdrawn at the bank they upped parts prices.

Thankfully most stuff is either recon or available aftermarket (ex China exhaust manifold £1000, said to be from the same foundry Cummins use, Dong Feng)

 

[derekbland]

Thanks for the info again guys

 

[Dick Atcherley]

I recall thinking a while ago that we knew each other, I think I have realised.

The only thing to look out for with these engines is the Cummins parts prices if you happen to need to buy something OEM, for example, exhaust manifold is £2500. Cummins parts were previously very cheap, but when Cummins got a little bit overdrawn at the bank they upped parts prices.

Thankfully most stuff is either recon or available aftermarket (ex China exhaust manifold £1000, said to be from the same foundry Cummins use, Dong Feng)

I think you're on to something there!

 

[5teve]

I recall thinking a while ago that we knew each other, I think I have realised.

The only thing to look out for with these engines is the Cummins parts prices if you happen to need to buy something OEM, for example, exhaust manifold is £2500. Cummins parts were previously very cheap, but when Cummins got a little bit overdrawn at the bank they upped parts prices.

Thankfully most stuff is either recon or available aftermarket (ex China exhaust manifold £1000, said to be from the same foundry Cummins use, Dong Feng)

This is an understatement! The guy that has been looking at rebuilding my turbo said the big truck turbos he used to rebuild, the bearing cartridge went from 700aud to 5500aud overnight.. my standard Cummins wet elbows have a list price if 6500aud EACH. They really are opening themselves up to losing a whole heap of business to China.. I'm currently looking at aftercooler cores and turbos (to use the housing from) from china as a reasonable cost alternative to buying via Cummins.
Still great engines though...

Steve

 

[Dick Atcherley]

The charge air intercoolers of my motors are bowman off-the-shelf items, FG 100

https://www.lancingmarine.com/pricebookpages/page21.html

The water cooled exhaust elbows are modified ford items with a 4 inch bore (new flange welded on)

https://www.lancingmarine.com/pricebookpages/page25.html

And frankly the turbo cartridges that I have bought on line seem to work well

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dodge-Ra...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

These are all bits for 225hp motors, but the principle holds true that there are bits out there that are available that might enable you to avoid some of cummins silly prices for marine bits.

 

[Latestarter1]

I agree with Portofino - it's all the marinising bits that cause problems; I have twin cummins 6bta's with charge-air intercoolers, producing a modest 225hp each. The bits that have given the problems have been the bolt-on marine bits, not the core. Had a cascade of issues caused initially by one of the charge-air intercoolers leaking raw water into the air-side (due to a defective tube-stack) that was initially a bugger to diagnose - at least one well known firm of marine cummins specialists couldn't find the problem and told me I was imagining things - and has made a mess along the way. It was only when the seawater corroded a bloody great hole in the bottom of the intercooler casing (and the resulting loss of charge pressure causes a bloody great smoke screen under load) that the problem became as obvious as the balls on a dog.

They're good motors, but keep an eye on the ancillaries.

Dick, I am just a little confused by your comments/experience. The only 6BTA 225 rating I am aware of is a very old de-rate of a Nippon Denso pump B250 but that had the terrible Modine designed to fail SWAC which was replaced by the good quality Serck alloy/bronze cap SWAC, Cummins did a discounted price for the Serck for years but either way this must be real old motor IF it is a derated Denso CPL.

I would be interested in knowing your engine serial numbers..

Serck charge air coolers have proved to be excellent quality units and being made in UK have been a cost reduction over the years however because nothing comes near them Serck CAC's still feature on the latest QSB 6.7's. What seems to have been overlooked is regular or defective CAC maintainence, end caps corrode if anodes not inspected or replaced. Tube stack in question simply suffered from corrosion due to neglect plain and simple.

Because Cummins Distribution Europe were charging out at £115/hr from the moment the van wheels roll last time I looked there are plenty of 'marine cummins specialists' out there.... Majority of them I would have to look out the window if they told me it was raining!

Cummins parts pricing policy used to be run by real smart guy who worked out of Cummins Shotts plant, real simple formula based on parts turns on the shelf as well as some aggressive pricing promotions to keep the after market at bay. Today everything has changed all very corporate, last time I spoke to a Cummins parts marketing VP I suggested that she should have kept off the happy baccy when doing her Harvard MBA!

Plenty of good aftermarket stuff out there no need to source from U.S, even Darlington build older mechanical CPL's from Dongfeng DCEC parts as they meet ALL the quality standards.

For example I sell new fully dressed DCEC cylinder heads to my local JCB dealer, loads of abused Fastrac's out there with zillions of hours on them, when they are on chaff cutting chokes radiators cooking the motor. Have you a new cylinder head, yes on the shelf £750 kerching! Bring on harvest time!

Old addage if you look after your Cummins it will look after you..

Paul

 

[MapisM]

Helloooo P, welcome back!
Where have you been hiding lately? We missed your contributions!
For instance, I'm sure you could enlighten us on a hearsay about a MAN/Cummins partnership, which we debated in the last posts of this thread. :encouragement:

 

[Latestarter1]

Dick, Just had an unpleasant thought...This thread is about 6BTA, suddenly realised there is a QSB 5.9 380 CPL down rate of 225 hp lovely lovely rating producing 220 hp from as low as about 1,700 rpm please tell me you have not butchered a QSB by fitting Bowman CAC.. Bowman is a decent unit but unsuited to a Tier II engine..

 

[Latestarter1]

Helloooo P, welcome back!
Where have you been hiding lately? We missed your contributions!
For instance, I'm sure you could enlighten us on a hearsay about a MAN/Cummins partnership, which we debated in the last posts of this thread. :encouragement:

Hi, just a flying visit, trying to finish my LAST cummins marine engines before consulting on development of Cummins based 24 valve 5.9 550 hp mechanical race engines. Let me take a look at the thread

 

[Bouba]

Dick, Just had an unpleasant thought...This thread is about 6BTA, suddenly realised there is a QSB 5.9 380 CPL down rate of 225 hp lovely lovely rating producing 220 hp from as low as about 1,700 rpm please tell me you have not butchered a QSB by fitting Bowman CAC.. Bowman is a decent unit but unsuited to a Tier II engine..

Hi Latestarter1, are you also saying to stay away from aftermarket parts for the tier 3 qsb 6.7 425?
I’m not in the marker for parts because it’s still under guarantee (so still paying through the nose) but just for future reference.

 

[MapisM]

Hi, just a flying visit, trying to finish my LAST cummins marine engines before consulting on development of Cummins based 24 valve 5.9 550 hp mechanical race engines. Let me take a look at the thread

Wow, that sounds intriguing. I wasn't aware of anyone sticking to mech engines, aside from (IIRC) Seatek.
I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one interested to hear more about that, if you wish/can/have time.
Regardless, all the very best for your project!

You can find the thread I was mentioning just by clicking on "this thread" in my previous post, but this is the full link, just in case (the MAN-Cummins debate started from post #28 onward):
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?501854