Cruising Laminate or good old fashioned Dacron?

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kacecar

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I'm coming up for a new furling genoa and would like to know what the forumites' thoughts are on material.

My tri-radial furling genoa is about 8 years old and made of a "cruising laminate" material (a polyester - mylar-polyester sandwich) and features a foam luff to aid furling. The sail still has a reasonably good overall shape but the leech is problematic, becoming seriously degraded by (I assume) exposure to sunlight. It would appear that the sacrificial strip (white) isn't wide enough to form a complete cover when the sail is furled so splits are now appearing in the sail material near the strip's inner edge. The immediate short-term fix is some patching and a wider sacrificial strip but, clearly, it's getting quite close to the time when I must raid the piggy-bank for a new sail.

The boat is a Sigma 362. My sailing is now all cruising, say 1000 - 1500 miles a year, although like many ex racers, I do appreciate a bit of performance. My finances are such that I need the sail to last (my mainsail is at least 15 years old and still in fine fettle).

The local sailmaker says that the only furling genoa he would recommend for cruising would be a straight-cut sail made of dacron. He wouldn't recommend a laminate or mylar for cruising (but would for racing). I'm sure that the well-known sailmakers that provided the sail 8 years ago would still say that a crusing laminate remains the way to go.

What do forumites think I should go for - another laminate or a suitable weight of dacron?

Thanks, in advance, for your opinions.
 
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I'm in the same boat so to speak. All my sailing is long distance cruising but I like some performance and would really like to get value for money out of a sizeable investment.

My sailmaker has recommended 10 oz Contender Fibercon as a premium cruising cloth with a Sunbrella strip. I know nothing about it but the website says very nice things about it (not surprisingly).
 
I suspect that if you are used to the performance of a tri-radial laminate sail, you may find a dacron crosscut disappointing after a season of stretching.
But if the genoa is on the large side, so you frequently reef it, there will be less difference.
Cloths are improving all the time, what lasted 8 years last time might do better now.
 
We've bought a Quantum Fusion Mx laminate High Aspect last year (furling). It's a great sail with (for us) unexpected power delivery.
Compared to the dacron sails I'm used to the sail I consider this sail more stable when set an easier to set in the optimal shape by moving the genua-cars. Said in a funny way: The sail talks you you much clearer about the trim.

Unlike many of your fellow countrymen we do use a cover to protect the sail when away from the boat. We consider the UV-strip a nice feature (it's on there as well) but to protect from UV, rain and dirt we feel the cover does a better job on the long run.
So when you want your sails to last...
Friends of ours also have Quantum Laminates (8 years old) and use a cover as well. His Genua is still in excellent shape.

The Quantum sailcloth is impressive as well as the finishing.
Personally I'm very happy we went for laminate sails

Good luck with your choice.
 
G12 said:
This could be what you want. Very good stuff.....

http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/Hydranet_2_2_1.php
Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat and looking for a tri radial in Hydranet radial. I'm tempted by the UK Halsey Passagemaker 111 in a laminate but still concerned by its life and possible mould collecting. My boat is 30 foot and the Hydranet radial from what I have read is only available in heavier cloths. Other choice would be a North Nordac headsail.

I'm also interested in a performance furling headsail and willing to pay for it.

I shall be following this thread with interest.
 
Are people in this thread saying 'furling' when they mean 'reefing'?
When you get deeper into laminates, there are sails you would furl but not reef.
 
lw395 said:
Are people in this thread saying 'furling' when they mean 'reefing'?
When you get deeper into laminates, there are sails you would furl but not reef.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain most people are looking for a sail they can furl to reduce the sail area. Reefing genoa is just that, extra reef points to reduce the sail. This means going forward to reef whereas the people here are shortening sail by furling.
 
fishermantwo said:
I'm fairly certain most people are looking for a sail they can furl to reduce the sail area. ....
Click to expand...

That's reefing.
To furl is to roll it away completely.*
Splitting hairs I know, but there are boats around that have roller headsails that are intended to be all rolled or all unrolled and would be ruined if stressed in between.

* not necessarily roll, you can furl a square sail by gathering it up like an austrian blind.
 
If you want a tri-radial sail then Dacron is not a good option. Norths have a new woven material that is very good but expensive, crusaider seem to offer good options as well.


If you go for a laminate sail you will be lucky to get more than 8 or 9 years as the flexing of the sail causes it to wear on the creases.

So a cross cut Dacron sail will last years and years but the shape may not be what you want. Try talking to one of the larger lofts like Banks or Norths or Sanders that make a lot of sails about your options and the pros and cons of each material. Then make your choice and pay your money. I've just been down this route and opted for a new Main and Genoa form Norths in Nordac.
 
temptress said:
If you want a tri-radial sail then Dacron is not a good option. Norths have a new woven material that is very good but expensive, crusaider seem to offer good options as well.


If you go for a laminate sail you will be lucky to get more than 8 or 9 years as the flexing of the sail causes it to wear on the creases.

So a cross cut Dacron sail will last years and years but the shape may not be what you want. Try talking to one of the larger lofts like Banks or Norths or Sanders that make a lot of sails about your options and the pros and cons of each material. Then make your choice and pay your money. I've just been down this route and opted for a new Main and Genoa form Norths in Nordac.
Click to expand...

I thought Nordac was a dacron, North Dacron just shortened. The North Nordac cruising genoas made in Australia are tri radials for furling. I will get a quote from them but expect it will be expensive.
 
snooks said:
Have a look into Hydranet...laminate shape holding with Dacron lifespan.

Basically it's Dacron with Dyneema woven into it.

Extremely happy with my main and genoa, both Hydranet, both from Crusader.
Click to expand...

Is the genoa a tri radial? From the sailmakers sites they say that Hydranet is too heavy for small yachts, hopefully that's changed. Do you know the cloth weight?
 
fishermantwo said:
I thought Nordac was a dacron, North Dacron just shortened. The North Nordac cruising genoas made in Australia are tri radials for furling. I will get a quote from them but expect it will be expensive.
Click to expand...

Yes it is DACROn but with a differance - so you can make radial sails out of it. There are also other alternatives. when i was looking for a new set of sails I just could not bring myself to have cross cut sails so i opted for Norths. It really up to you. As with most things you get what you pay for.:eek:
 
temptress said:
Yes it is DACROn but with a differance - so you can make radial sails out of it. There are also other alternatives. when i was looking for a new set of sails I just could not bring myself to have cross cut sails so i opted for Norths. It really up to you. As with most things you get what you pay for.:eek:
Click to expand...

Radial sails have been successfully made in Dacron for a very long time.
 
temptress said:
i disagree. Yes they have been made in DACRON but not IMO very successfully:p. Especially larger sails.
Click to expand...

I don't know what your measure of success is, but radial dacron sails have been used successfully on virtually everything from dinghies to ocean racers over the past 50 years or so. Cross cut is usually preferred for small dinghy jibs, because the size does not justify so many seams. But anything bigger, the stability of having the threads broadly in line with the stresses makes a radial clew and head a popular choice.
Such a sail will cost more to make, but keep its shape longer than a horizontal cut where the stresses are on the bias of the cloth.
I had a Crusader radial roller genoa on my last boat, a good all purpose sail, but not in the same league as the UK 'Tape Drive' racing sails. But the Tape Drives didn't furl happily, let alone reef.
 
Snake-Skin furling jib/genoa cover

We have been using a separate cover for our furling headsail. It is made from heavy fabric like a normal mainsail cover. It has a zipper all the way along and we hoist it over the furled headsail using the spinnaker halyard, zipping as we go until the whole headsail is covered. It has lacing so that it can be pulled snug once hoisted.

This offers much better UV and weather protection than a sun-strip on the sail. We frequently leave a laminated racing sail furled and covered and have no sign of degradation at all. Even when the Dacron cruising genoa with sun-strip is fitted we still use the separate cover for extra protection.

The cover is going to cost a couple of hundred pounds from a sailmaker but will easily save you that in extended sail life.
 
Recently invested in hydranet triradial roller headsail. Reasons for choice of fabric - shape holding, durability, less prone to mildew than laminates. Very happy with choice, excellent pointing even when reefed.
 
Thanks everyone for the opinions and experiences - really useful.

I did indeed mean "roller-reefing" rather then just furling and "cross-cut" rather than "straight-cut".

I'm completely sold on a tri-radial - I remember the difference from when I first switched to one from a cross-cut.

From the info you've provided I now have an extra type to consider - the choice is now between "pure" dacron, a cruising laminate and some form of re-inforced dacron (e.g. Hydranet). Having tried the first two materials the third is looking favourite. It is clear that material technology has been moving on apace and that to investigate the various types of "reinforced dacron", I must talk to a few sail makers and then sort through the bumph and sales claims before choosing the type of cloth. And, in fairness to the salespeople I should wait until the piggy-bank has a bit more in it!

In due course I'll let you know how I get on. But don't hold your breath - that piggy-bank is woefully underfilled!

Thanks again for the asistance and food for thought.
 
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