Cruising 'Chutes and Spinakers.

[Slowboat35]

I inherited a cruising chute with my boat and have used it for reaching and broad reaching with good effect.
I'm now wondering if a true downwind sail (spinaker) might not fill the last hole in the wardrobe.

But on reading and researching I see so many descriptions of asymmetric 'spinakers' being flown pole-less in what I'd understood as 'cruising chute' mode I'm now wondering what the difference is and which is which.

I'm clear that an assymetric sail is a reaching sail and a symmetrical one is best for dead downwind -
So is a cc one thing when nailed to the deck but when used with a pole it becomes an "assymetric spinny"? And is the same thing true vikky-verka?

Confused...

 

[RobF]

This page may help..
Spinnakers | Boat Handling - Sail | Cruising Tips | Knowledge & Advice | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

Symmetric use pole
Asymmetric have tack attached to the bow or bowsprit

 

[duncan99210]

I’ve always thought that there’s a bit of confusion in the naming of the various sails but the rule of thumb from RobF is a good one. My cruising chute can also be called an asymmetrical spinnaker: I’ve used it relatively deep down wind but I regard it mainly as a light wind sail rather than a downwind sail per se. I don’t have a symmetrical spinnaker, too much like hard work coping with poles, guys and the rest of it for the very occasional time it’d be a useful addition to the collection.
If I were to contemplate a transatlantic trip, I’d probably get a Parasail on the assumption that most of the trip would be downwind and a proper sail would be useful. Not cheap though....

 

[PaulRainbow]

I have a cruising chute.with a sock. I can fly it single handed with little fuss, which i doubt i could do with a spinnaker. I accept that it has limitations downwind, in that it isn't really a dead downwind sail (would be at great risk of wrapping the forestay), so i make sure i use it when the wind is just off of one quarter, even if it means the occasional gybe.

 

[bobgarrett]

We frequently goose-wing our cruising chute and main if going dead downwind. Works well but safest with a preventer.

 

[LadyInBed]

We frequently goose-wing our cruising chute and main if going dead downwind. Works well but safest with a preventer.

Personally I would use the cruising chute with a polled out Genoa and ditch the main.

 

[Slowboat35]

OK, but what about using a 'cruising chute'with a pole? Any reason why not?
If you do, what is it? A cc or a spinny?

And what about using a spinny (asymmetric or not) bolted down to the bow? Does that make it a cc then?

Is there any fundamental difference between the two other than shape - ie symetric and assymetric? Is the use (or non use) of a pole of any significance? ie you can use ot not use a pole with either at will?

 

[Neeves]

So if I pole out my genny - is it a spinnaker?



Jonathan

 

[Laminar Flow]

Personally I would use the cruising chute with a polled out Genoa and ditch the main.

Yes, that works until you need to take the beast down in a rising wind without the lee of the main.

 

[geem]

We have an asymmetric spinnaker. We only use it on a spinnaker pole. It isnt a cruising chute. Its also larger than the original symmetrical spinnaker the boat was designed for. For cruising we dont need a symmetrical spinnaker. The asymmetric covers all bases from dead down wind to wind forward of the beam. Its super stable and powerful. We fly it with just husband and wife on a 44ft boat. The sail is 1700sqft. I think the difference between this sail and a cruising chute is the cut of the sail. Our asymmetric is wide. You couldnt have a wide cut sail as a cruising chute and maintain any stability. In my experience on my previous boat the cruising chute that the boat came with gave only a marginal performance advantage over a poled out overlapping genoa. We sold the cruising chute and bought an asymmetric to use on a pole. It worked so well we did the same with the current boat. Our friends have the same boat as us with a Parasailor. Dead down wind we are at least a knot faster id not more. They have taken to using it on a pole goosed winged with the main as we do with the asymmetric as they say it works better

 

[[3889]]

Yes, that works until you need to take the beast down in a rising wind without the lee of the main.

Isn't the answer to that problem to have a tack fitting that can be released under tension to completely depower the sail?
I had a symmetric on my last boat but still found it faster to gybe downwind at about 160 deg, an angle at which a cruising chute or A4 assym could be flown.

 

[Catalina36]

Yes, that works until you need to take the beast down in a rising wind without the lee of the main.

That's what snuffers are for. Just ease the tack and snuff it.

 

[geem]

That's what snuffers are for. Just ease the tack and snuff it.

We would never fly our asymmetric without the mainsail. Even with a snuffer, in rising wind the main is essential for us to create a collapse of the spinnaker so the snuffer can do its job. We have tried the asymmetric on its own. Never again!

 

[Stemar]

I doubt it would work on a big boat, but a trick I've seen to tame a spinny on a small boat is to take a line from the head down to a sewn in canvas loop in the middle of the foot. When you want to depower, ease the sheet and guy, pull in the line and it spills the wind, reducing the risk of dramas.

Never tried it, Milady's nervous enough with white sails. I reckon a spinny would be grounds for divorce, and I'd rather keep her.

 

[bobgarrett]

Personally I would use the cruising chute with a polled out Genoa and ditch the main.

Done that too! It depends on the circumstances.

 

[dulls]

OK, but what about using a 'cruising chute'with a pole? Any reason why not?
If you do, what is it? A cc or a spinny?

And what about using a spinny (asymmetric or not) bolted down to the bow? Does that make it a cc then?

Is there any fundamental difference between the two other than shape - ie symetric and assymetric? Is the use (or non use) of a pole of any significance? ie you can use ot not use a pole with either at will?

Use i think a whisker pole or something that sounds like that.

 

[flaming]

I inherited a cruising chute with my boat and have used it for reaching and broad reaching with good effect.
I'm now wondering if a true downwind sail (spinaker) might not fill the last hole in the wardrobe.

But on reading and researching I see so many descriptions of asymmetric 'spinakers' being flown pole-less in what I'd understood as 'cruising chute' mode I'm now wondering what the difference is and which is which.

I'm clear that an assymetric sail is a reaching sail and a symmetrical one is best for dead downwind -
So is a cc one thing when nailed to the deck but when used with a pole it becomes an "assymetric spinny"? And is the same thing true vikky-verka?

Confused...

The principal difference between what sailmakers sell as an Asymmetric Spinnaker and what they sell as a cruising chute is in the luff. If you took both sails and laid them out on a lawn, then took some string and ran it from the head to the tack of both sails you would see that on the cruising chute the string would be outside the sail, so the luff is a bit hollow. On the Asymmetric kite the string would still be inside the sail, so the luff projects in front of the sail.

The result of this is that the cruising chute is, as you might expect, somewhat more stable but less powerful. The asymmetric kite will be a considerably more powerful sail, and as you've seen better able to sail lower than a cruising chute.
However, the drawback is that they are not "set and forget" sails when sailing low. A good crew on a J109 can sail as low as 170 degrees with their A2 asymmetric, but to do this takes very careful co-ordination between the kite trimmer and the driver, and the rest of the crew hiking hard to roll the boat to windward and help the sail rotate around the forestay. Like this

The best way to boost your downwind performance with a cruising chute is to pole out the tack of the sail.

 

[TernVI]

The principal difference between what sailmakers sell as an Asymmetric Spinnaker and what they sell as a cruising chute is in the luff. If you took both sails and laid them out on a lawn, then took some string and ran it from the head to the tack of both sails you would see that on the cruising chute the string would be outside the sail, so the luff is a bit hollow. On the Asymmetric kite the string would still be inside the sail, so the luff projects in front of the sail.
.

That is something of a generalisation, many cruising chutes have significant (windward) curve in the luff.
There is a whole spectrum with asy's for running at one end and code-zero genoas at the other.
I think maybe the trend to roller furling cruising chutes has moved 'the norm' in cruising chutes towards code zero things wih straight or even hollow luffs.
A few modern cruising boats with bowsprits are really carrying a lightweight furling genoa.
When nobody had bowsprits, cruisng chutes were expected to curve out well ahead of the forestay.

You can change things some by easing or shortening halyard or tack line.

Then there's cheap horizontal-cut cruising chutes which soon stretch to terrible shapes....

I think there is actually more skill in sailing (well) with a cruising chute than a symmetrical kite, there is much more to it than setting it and aiming the boat, it requires (and rewards) more input from the helm, continuously trading speed against heading. And keeping the boat under the rig....

 

[vyv_cox]

A couple of years ago we were able to compare two almost identical boats, Sadler 34s, one under spinnaker, the other under cruising chute. We were trying to sail as low as possible in wind that started out as F3 and finished as F5. The big difference was that in big gusts we could bear away with little discernable effect on the spinnaker. Doing the same the other boat's chute would be blanketed by the main, flapping loudly. At times we were close to a mile away and could hear it. Gybing the chute might have been an option but conditions were quite testing by this stage.

 

[flaming]

That is something of a generalisation, many cruising chutes have significant (windward) curve in the luff.

That would surprise me, as the whole point of a cruising chute is stability. I've certainly never seen a cruising chute with any luff projection.