Cruising chute wraps around furled genoa?

[Mrnotming]

Arising from another thread discussion I would like Forumites for their experiences in flying Cruising Chutes,with or without poles, in swell conditions, where a wrap around a furled genoa might cause a worrying knot to form.
How, apart from proper sail handling can this be dealt with, and are there positive steps, apart from not using same, to migitate the occurrance?
Thanks all,

 

[Seajet]

paulclan,

all I can say is this must be a very rare occurence, and not to worry about it; after all any chute will be forward and to leeward of the forestay / rolled jib.

What I can say is don't bother with the old chestnut of motoring in circles to unwind a wrapped chute, spinnaker or genoa, doesn't work and just adds to hassle especially for people trying to stand on the foredeck.

The big tip with any chute or spinnaker is to lower it at a steady pace, not risking the thing going in the water then straight under the bows and around the keel...

 

[Cardo]

What I can say is don't bother with the old chestnut of motoring in circles to unwind a wrapped chute, spinnaker or genoa, doesn't work and just adds to hassle especially for people trying to stand on the foredeck.

We had our cruising chute wrap itself quite tightly around the furled genoa when in a swell last season. Went round about 7 or 8 times. Lovely. No chance of taking it down, it was wrapped tight.

On hindsight, we should've taken it down earlier, but, well, that's hindsight for you.

We ended up motoring in circles in order to unravel it. Worked a treat, even if it did take some doing with the wind and swell working against us.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

In my early experience this happened on a J109.

The conditions were fairly benign and poor helming by me meant that my son had become wrapped in the cruising chute along with the furled genoa.

It wasn't a comfortable experience for my son but his sister and I fell about in uncontrollable hysterics and belly laughs as he completely lost it from within his cacoon.

S.

 

[TQA]

Most years boats arrive in St Lucia with their spi firmly wrapped around roller furling genoa. I have heard of people who have a false sail made of widely spaced tape to prevent this.

 

[flaming]

paulclan,

all I can say is this must be a very rare occurence, and not to worry about it; after all any chute will be forward and to leeward of the forestay / rolled jib.

Whilst it's full...

The main reason you get wraps is driving too deep and blanketing it, followed by wind round the back of the main.

If you do get one, most come out by heading up to a reach and sheeting on hard. If that doesn't work go to the forestay and pull down. If that doesn't work you need to work out how it actually wrapped, then try and unwrap in the same way.

Rolling / unrolling the jib might work too.

But if all else fails you just have to go up to the top of the forestay and climb down it unwrapping it as you go. Or knifing it if you can't unwrap.

The key is to react fast and not let it get too wrapped.

 

[Seajet]

In my early experience this happened on a J109.

The conditions were fairly benign and poor helming by me meant that my son had become wrapped in the cruising chute along with the furled genoa.

It wasn't a comfortable experience for my son but his sister and I fell about in uncontrollable hysterics and belly laughs as he completely lost it from within his cacoon.

S.

There was a Peyton cartoon about this, " has anyone seen Eric ? " with just a pair of deck shoes poking below the rolled sail...

 

[Mrnotming]

Thanks all,great replies so far!
So a false sail is still the best bet, if a suitable stay is arranged on which to hank same, with little or no gap between furled genoa and the falsie?
Its just that in the swelly left over swell/cross sea conditions when one would like to use a flying sail, nerve fails when thinking of the mayhem which will result from a wrap.

 

[Uricanejack]

Well I did it last year.
Don't have any really good recommendations. I have rarely used a cruising shute.
Just don't put it up in a f5 with a 2.5 to 3m sea behind you. when you are on deck on your own.
It was fun while it lasted though.

Just one wrap about an hour to get it down.

 

[Seajet]

If you really feel you need a ' false sail ', how about the storm jib sheeted tight amidships ? You have got a storm jib I hope !

 

[fergie_mac66]

pull the Gen out before raising or lowering the chute

 

[mrming]

If you really feel you need a ' false sail ', how about the storm jib sheeted tight amidships ? You have got a storm jib I hope !

I know the OP well and he has covered more miles at sea than many on here (including me). It's safe to assume he has a storm jib.

 

[dratsea]

Agree, always worked for me.

 

[Mrnotming]

Thanks Seajet, yes I do have a bagged stormjib with sheets pre-attached,too small I feel to do the job of a spinnaker net.Also the attachment point for the storm stay is just aft of the anchor locker, leaving a goodly gap between the rolled genoa and this stay.The gap does diminish with height though, so not a bad idea at all.It would also give me a practice run at setting up the storm jib, as it has not been ever used in anger, just set for practice.A narrow blade jib on this stay might do the job better?

 

[boaterbaz]

Don't know the configuration of OP'S boat but maybe a couple of turns of the furling headsail open and the genny sheets pulled on hard might be enough to stop a wrap.
Would pay good money to see foredeck hand cocooned in kite!!!

 

[westhinder]

We managed to wrap the asymmetric around the rolled genoa one of the first times we tried this new to us sail. Gybing went wrong and before we realised we had a wrap.
Spent an interesting half hour with two on the foredeck and finally managed to unwrap it by motoring in circles. So yes, that does work.
How to prevent it? By improving my sailhandling technique in the first place. I have wondered about hoisting the blade jib on the removable forestay, but I have a feeling the gap between jib and rolled genoa is wide enough to allow another wrap, and unwrapping will only be complicated by the inner stay.

 

[mrming]

We managed to wrap the asymmetric around the rolled genoa one of the first times we tried this new to us sail. Gybing went wrong and before we realised we had a wrap.
Spent an interesting half hour with two on the foredeck and finally managed to unwrap it by motoring in circles. So yes, that does work.
How to prevent it? By improving my sailhandling technique in the first place. I have wondered about hoisting the blade jib on the removable forestay, but I have a feeling the gap between jib and rolled genoa is wide enough to allow another wrap, and unwrapping will only be complicated by the inner stay.

I don't know about cruising chutes tacked on the bow specifically, but when we gybe our asymmetric (tacked onto a short retractable sprit) we've learned not to sail deep first, but instead to gybe the boat rapidly from reach to reach, giving the sail less time to get aquatinted with the forestay. I also get someone on the bow to quickly hoik the sail through the gap between it's luff and the forestay (obviously if you're short handed you might not have the extra pair of hands needed).

 

[Stingo]

Whilst it's full...

The main reason you get wraps is driving too deep and blanketing it, followed by wind round the back of the main.

Yep, this has happened to me too while trying to sail dead down wind. All I do is bear off so that I am sailing to the lee and the spinnaker eventually unwinds itself. You need to sail to the lee as much as you dare without gybing the main.

 

[lustyd]

Arising from another thread discussion I would like Forumites for their experiences in flying Cruising Chutes,with or without poles, in swell conditions, where a wrap around a furled genoa might cause a worrying knot to form.
How, apart from proper sail handling can this be dealt with, and are there positive steps, apart from not using same, to migitate the occurrance?
Thanks all,

We had the top half of a spinnaker wrap around the forestay on a 40 footer while passing the Mull of Galloway. The bottom half we fished out of the sea. The only resolution was to carry on sailing and sort it in the harbour since it was knotted around the only spare halyard we had since we couldn't use the spinnaker one, and couldn't drop the main because the top half of the spinnaker prevented us turning to wind as it had ballooned out. An exciting day in a F7 followed and eventually we got to the harbour and fixed everything. We chose not to fly the other spinnaker that trip...

 

[lustyd]

hoik the sail through the gap between it's luff and the forestay .

Why wouldn't you just route the sheets outside the stay and pull the sail on the outside?