Cruise Liner Livery

[crevi]

After being a day skipper for a mere four years. I decided to take part in my first yacht race. (Jog Cowes-Cherbourg). I can’t tell you how shocked I was at the experience I had. We where on our way back, very tired. To see a starboard light we thought! On a cruise liner. The liner was not behaving as if moving in that direction so warranted watching. Which we did, as we came closer the light was blue not green. Cruise company livery. Whilst I am sure that it makes them feel fab to have these lights do they not realise the risk they are running from inexperienced and tired crew. Thankfully we had a conscious skipper who was very experienced. However after the Ouzo tragedy do they not think it is about time to do a little housekeeping.
Not all that sail are experienced enough or certainly awake enough to spot the obvious mistake.
More importantly what use is vessel livery in the middle of the channel???

 

[Dyflin]

Two important points you have brought up here.

Firstly, cruise liners (and some ferries and fishing boats) have deck lights which can mask their nav lights as to make them disappear amongst the clutter. I doubt they will change their practice, but it's a problem.

Secondly, you sound like you learned a valuable lesson. When you venture out to sea, have someone who is experienced on board.

 

[Twister_Ken]

There's one that sails around with a massive plasma screen TV on the top deck. I guess that would be a bit of foxer at night.

"Hey skip, there's something out, there. I think it's Jeremy Clarkson and Top Gear"

 

[crevi]

Hi,
I completely agree. I would never go out with my experience level without an experienced skipper. However the deck lights one is prepared for. The livery is not only not mentioned in any course I have been on. It also seems totally useless for marketing purposes in the middle of the channel where it is only seen by other boats. Indeed it is downright dangerous!
The trouble is on the water, not all are appreciative of their lack of experience. So surely if unnecessary hazards can be avoided then that would be a good thing?

 

[Evadne]

Our ships use lots of deck lights when we're working on deck, but under way the ossifers are keen to douse all lights except the nav. lights as it spoils their night vision. Fishing boats are different in that working usually involves steaming as well. It beats me how anyone sees where they're going with all the light pollution on some of those cruise liners, but it's probably not as bad as it appears.

 

[crevi]

The point you make is there is a purpose to the lights you use.
It is also not used when not needed.
There is no good reason for light livery. Therefore is just light pollution. However. I have to disagree it as as bad as it looks, but isn't that the point. You are right, how do people see, at all?

 

[Racecruiser]

Well I had to chuckle a bit! Liners and cross channel ferries all seem to light themselves like christmas trees but in reasonable viz you can usually work out which way they are going and a hand bearing compass can help.

Course it's worse in fog when you can hear 'em and even smell the burnt heavy oil but you don't always see 'em!

Hope you crossed the shipping lanes at precise right angles like they say on the courses!!

 

[Twister_Ken]

>Hope you crossed the shipping lanes at precise right angles like they say on the courses!!<

If they said that on your course, ask for your money back.

TSS have to be x'd at right angles. Plain old shipping lanes have no such requirement.

 

[awol]

But on the other side of the coin - we were sailing up the Forth towards the bridges at night in good visibility when I was suddenly (and it was sudden!) aware that there was a black mass heading for us about half a mile away. She was actually totally legally lit with two mast lights and a port but they were all at the same level as the rail and road bridges and I hadn't noticed them moving amongst the massed lights of road/rail works and moving vehicles. I've had the same problem differentiating ships against shore lights where it is the blanking of fixed lights rather than the moving nav lights that give a clue.
So given the choice I'd rather see a christmas tree and have to divine its direction than not see several thousand tons of steel.

 

[Racecruiser]

TK - I would like to say you spotted my deliberate mistake but I would be fibbing so am happy to be corrected.

I did do a shorebased Yachtmaster someyears ago and I seem to remember the instructor talking about right angles when crossing the channel even when not in a TSS. Maybe he was offering 'good practice' advice.

 

[crevi]

Well this time I had to giggle. The salty dogs come out to play!
Us mere newbies to the water have "O"s all over our faces!
Whilst obviously would/did use compass in that situation, and we where prepared for Christmas trees...not so ready for properly lit ships...maybe I will by the time I hit Yachtmaster!! Should be a few years so wait with baited breath. The point was that interior lights..yeah painful but ok..the livery is unnecessary. Dangerous, and pollution. Or maybe my lack of experience is missing something.
Why are these companies not taken to task on this. Pride of Cherbourg, and Pride of Bilbao have both hit boats. Whilst I do not know the full details this is an area that the powers that be should be looking at surely????

 

[Racecruiser]

Crevi - apologies I wasn't trying to sound like a salty dog (did someone say colregs) and having thought a bit more about it you are probably distinguishing between christmas trees (which passenger vessels will probably always look like) and the unnecessary illuminated livery they have.

You raise a very good point - perhaps they should not be able to illuminate funnels etc when they have left port. Marine and Coastguard Agency listening in?

 

[DavenHelen]

[ QUOTE ]
TSS have to be x'd at right angles.

[/ QUOTE ]

...a heading at right angles. As I am sure you mean.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Yerssindeed parson. But y'all know that anyway.

 

[Bilgediver]

But on the other side of the coin - we were sailing up the Forth towards the bridges at night in good visibility when I was suddenly (and it was sudden!) aware that there was a black mass heading for us about half a mile away. She was actually totally legally lit with two mast lights
..........................................................................................

I always have the radio on at least CH 16 and 71 in the Forth then able to keep up with ship movements and expect them when they appear..

It is always difficult to see ships and more so small baots against shore lights.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Another place where ship spotting at night is a good game is coming into the entrance of Southampton Water from the North Channel. You have all the lights of the Fawley oil jetties, and the refineries behind them, glaring straight at you. Nav lights and buoys are very difficult to spot.

 

[crevi]

I think the whole point here. Is it is a big enough mare without these liners and ferries making the whole situation much worse. I feel sure that if a Yacht was badly lit and caught then it would be skippers keelhauled. However these companies who are riding rough shod over all are just ignored. There have been so many reports on Ouzo and the like...doesn't seem like the lessons that should be learned are being learned. Basic common sense???? It diffies me what is happening on the water in this regard.

Wish I could say I thought I was taking it to seriously...it does seem the relevant authorities are not taking it seriously enough!!