Crossing the Thames Estuary

[Stemar]

I have to plan a passage across the Thames Estuary as part of a trip from Falmouth to Bradwell. As a Solent wuss, I'm a bit horrified by all the lumps in the way

It looks pretty straightforward as far Black Deep, and from Barrow Deep on through the Spitway, except, perhaps at low springs, but Knock John & Sunk Sand look like a problem. Given a reasonable height of tide and sensible weather, is it reasonable to go through Fisherman's Gat and cross just S of South West Sunk or N of Middle Sunk? Charted depths in those shortcuts are less than a metre on my chart, but a couple of metres of tide should see us through OK if the sea's calm.

Am I right to think that if there's a bit of a chop, I'm better off coming out of the Gat and turning right until I'm about 1 1/2 miles NE of No 5 ECB and have a PH mark identified as No 2 roughly abeam? That looks as though it'll give me a least charted depth of around 2.9m

One final question. Do the tide heights at Sheerness give a good basis to work out depths across the the Estuary? If not what should I use?

Boat's a 30ft fin keeler drawing around 1.5m. and my charts show the Gunfleet & Thanet Offshore wind farms.

Thanks in advance for all sensible advice!

 

[AliM]

Look at this website:
http://www.crossingthethamesestuary.com/

Buy the book (as above)

Do a search on the East Coast Forum.

Ask on the ECF.

PM Tillergirl (usually to be found on the ECF) and he'll tell you all about it (including the latest hazards).

It's not as bad as it looks, but do get the tide right!

 

[ianfr]

Hi

You might like to look at http://eastcoastsailing.co.uk/SW%20Sunk%202011%20ECS%20and%20CTTE%20version.pdf

I can confirm that this is a viable passage, having just gone through with a 1.4 metre draft boat.

Also look at http://www.crossingthethamesestuary.com/index.html Roger's book is a goldmine. I am just a satisfied customer by the way

Also the East coast forum would be perhaps a better place for advice

Regards

Ian

 

[maby]

Don't skimp on clearance - it's an estuary with quite a lot of mud floating around - charted depths are not always as reliable as one might like!

 

[aslabend]

Another way is to take a trip into london, have a night out in the west end, and then come back out - you can then go more with tides and sandbanks than across them.

 

[Amulet]

I'd be inclined to break the journey at Harty or Queenborough. In truth, now that I've done it a few times, I tend to be more worried about the bit round the North Foreland than crossing the Thames. My boat is smaller and slower than yours though. My usual routes shown. I am more of a wuss than most, but in reasonable weather they feel pretty easy even to me.

 

[Martin_J]

Steve

I sail the south coast as well and those sand banks gave me the same thoughts as they did you... The chartlet at the URL below was great to give me a quick reference to all the names of 'gats' and 'sunks' etc that others were talking about.. It also shows possible passages..

http://www.eventides.org.uk/images/Thames Estuary windfarms.JPG

I brought my current boat back from Ipswich and going through the sandbanks was a much shorter route than going outside.

I bought Imray C1 for the Thames Estuary (Woodbridge to Ramsgate) and Admiralty SC5602 (Chichester to Ramsgate) for the journey.. You are welcome to borrow them. I'm around Portsmouth/Littlehampton area.. PM me if needed..

Also my tidal atlas for the Thames Estuary shows tide heights for each hour as well as rising/falling information. It wasn't the Admiralty atlas. Will check out the author this evening. Again, welcome to borrow...
Hope this helps. Rgds Martin.

PS - Some detailed planning charts and tide charts here if needed...
http://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/thames-estuary/thames-estuary/charts.asp?cattype=5

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

We usually go through Foulgers Gat, and then down Black Deep, round Sunk Head, NE Gunfleet and into Ipswich... For Bradwell i'd cross Sunk like you've suggested... Done it a few times, and with enough tide its not a problem... Research collapsed towers, the remains of which sit submerged on the bank and are very much to be avoided!

At present, with windfarm works, Fishermans Gat is easier than Foulgers

Make sure your sounder is calibrated correctly, and dont panic when its down to 1m under the keel... It'll get shallower!

Seriously, its a great feeling when you complete it... Done it more times tham i care to count.

 

[rob2]

Bought my boat in West Mersea and brought her home to the Solent. First night was in Bradwell so we could try everything out. The engine died in the Swatchway and we only touched the bottom once (charted depth over 1m) but otherwise remarkably uneventful. It is strangely disorienting out in the middle with nothing but water around you! Keep plotting the GPS position on the chart, that'll help.

Rob.

P.S. made it to Ramsgate that second day.

 

[tillergirl]

Just wrote about two sides of A4 here, hit the button and lost the lot! Eeek.

Can't face doing it again. Oh well here goes.

Route

Without wishing to offend Martin J, please don't use that image of routes. It still shows the SW Sunk Beacon which has been dangerous unmarked wreckage on the seabed for the last 5 years, it shows one route through the North Edinburgh Channel (through the London Sand) and this is unbuoyed now and it shows another through Foulger's Gat which is closed because of Wind Farm work - and the buoys have been lifted from there.

Tides

Would you be overnighting in Ramsgate? Ramsgate to Bradwell is 40 odd nm so at an average of 5 knots, this is an 8 hour passage. At 5 knots it is impossible to have a favourable tide for every sector of the passage. the principle tidal decisions are 1. to get the best helping hand up past the North Foreland (adverse tide here makes things very slow), 2. To arrive in the Black Deep so as to avoid the peak adverse tide, 3. To cross the Sunk Sand on a rising tide (not essential but better for the nerves for the first time), 4. if your draught is substantial to avoid arriving at low water springs at the Spitway 5. to have a favourable tide from the Spitway all the way to Bradwell. Frankly the main point of my book is to provide tables to make this an easier calculation. I suggest you tell me when you are planning to do this, draught and boat speed.

Route

Choice - cross the Estuary or go round the edges? It's quite practical to cross the estuary. to go round the edges is quite a long way! I will not deal with the latter although there are some additional tables on my website you can download to assist thse calculations. But Crossing the Estuary:

For Bradwell, you have to cross the Long Sand, then the Sunk Sand, go round the East Barrow Sand, cross the Buxey/Gunfleet Sands and then go between the Knoll and the Bench Head and you are there!

Long Sand - that eventide diagram shows the North Edinburgh and Foulger's Gat routes. I would suggest you don't use those. The North Edinburgh is still supposed to be viable but it hasn't been surveyed since the buoyage was lifted and it was used from part of the spoil from the dredging of the Princes Channel. I suspect it is still fine but I have no personal knowledge to guide you as to depths. Mileage wise it will not harm you to use Fisherman's Gat. Foulger's Gat is really off limits. there are times you can use it but the work boats are very busy, it means threading through wind turbine pedestals that are not yet marked for the purpose and our latest infomation is that there are unlit mooring buoys marking big anchors adjacent to the Gat. If you do nevertheless want to use the Gat having read the whole of this post, then please read my weekly (AND FREE) Notices to mariners service at http://www.eastcoastsailing.co.uk/ntm.html (under the Temporary Notices) - where there is a nice illustration of the work anticipated for the week to come).

Fisherman's Gat is not a recommended route on that Eventide Image because we were discouraged from using it 5 or 6 years ago as it was a shipping route to the Black Deep and then onto the London River. However, they have (as I said) dredged the Princes Channel and that has taken quite a bit of shipping away from Fisherman's Gat. the Fisherman's Gat is well marked, there is plenty of room within the channel and indeed outside it for yachts. The one exception to this is the inside corner between the Gat and the Black Deep. The tide runs hard round this corner at times, there is shallow ground there not far from the Inner Fisherman buoy and this is an area to take care to keep out of the way of any ships turning the corner to or from the Black Deep. My recommendation to you is to use Fisherman's Gat.

Then there is the Sunk Sand. Can I suggest you read my article done this summer in Edition 2 of East Coast Sailing. Find it in the Back Issues button at http://www.eastcoastsailing.co.uk/index.html

It talks of three crossing points - the SW Sunk (clear of the wreckage of the beacon), the Middle Sunk (clear of the wreckage of the Sunk beacon - notice a pattern here) or to cross 'adjacent' to the Barrow No 2 buoy. Adjacent is streching it a bit but that's the nearest mark. My strong recommendation is to avoid the Middle Sunk choice. Yes, its the shortest route but the wreckage of the old beacon is a substantial stub awash at low water and there is a nasty - nasty, nasty spur of hard sand growing north-east from the Middle Sunk that means a detour - only a smallish one mind you - to the east to clear. Experienced people have used that route this year but it's not in my view for the first timer - unless you like the taste of adreinaline in your mouth!

So either turn west for the SW Sunk swatchway or east for the 'Barrow No 2'. For the SW Sunk swatch, go to http://www.eastcoastsailing.co.uk/chartlets.html and download my chart (yes it's FREE!). Goto the recommended waypoint at the edge of the Black Deep and head for the Barrow No 6. Watch your x track error. The cross tide effect decreases as you head over the sand and increases once again as you near the Barrow No 6. If you are going over on the ebb (and with a SW wind), you have a nasty hard knoll of sand to your lee. As a result of the experience of a forumite in the summer, there is a Notice to Mariners in respect of this knoll which is otherwise shown on charts as a depth of 3.7m. Read the article at Page 22 of East Coast Sailing Edition 3. There is plenty of depth in the swatchway, its just a good idea to stay in it! This is the swatch that Ianfr referes to above. Once at the Barrow No 6, it is an easy passage up the side of the East Barrow Sands where the shallows are nice and consistent and you can stay close minding the wreck (Awash) marked on the charts (never ever seen it but don't be the one to find it) and also the shallow northeast finger of that sand. From there head to the Spitway - see my chart as mentioned before. If its the bottom of a spring tide and you draw a fair bit you will bump the bottom but again its pretty flat with no surprises if you are cutting it fine. From the Spitway, most of us leave the Knoll Cardinal close to starbaord, then ditto the Eagle and that keeps us clear of the Knoll shoal. NW Knoll to port and Bench Head to Starboard and the Power Station will be ahead of you and Mersea Island to starboard. Bradwell Creek is the subject of another chart on that same page.

Alternative turn to the east at the top of Fisherman's Gat and trundle down to the waypoints for the Barrow No 2 crossing. This is longer as pointed out in the article, has no real reference marks visible and is a gap between two obstructions on the sands clearly marked on the charts. Once over the ssands its a straight run to the Spitway. the b*gg*ration factor here is the tide. From Fisherman's Gat to this crossing point tides can run a 2+ knots on springs. So you really want the ebb - with the ebb at its fiercest and a SW wind, you'll whisk down here and need to be ready. First time I did it back in the days of Decca, by the time I'd sorted out things in my mind we were past the point of turning and had to carry on to the Sunk Head. Anyway, no drifting, back to the narrative. Once across the sand you will be facing the same ebb all the 5nm to the Spitway. Unless of course you have taken the last of the ebb from the Gat, crossed the sand at dead low water and then you pick up the first of the flood all the way to the Spitway and beyond. But you will be over the sands at dead low water. Ah the joys of the Estuary.

Man Made Hazards that are current:

1. London Array Wind Farm. In addition to the work around Foulger's Gat, they are trundling the power cables out from the East Swale to the Wind Farm. At some stage this will cross the bottom of Fisherman's Gat and it will be closed. The cable laying barge hauls itself along on anchors which are lifted and extended further forward by service vessels and you really will not want to try to get involved in that - and you will be quite rightly chased off. That excepted, the Guard Boat - currently the Mary Ann 1 (check my NtM service weekly) are exceptionally helpful to yachties and should be called if you go near.

2. Ships in the Black Deep. Yes we do have big ships here. the Black Deep is used by biggish container ships, tankers etc. Most of the Ferries are using the Princes Channel now I think. they get a tramp on and have no room to manoeuvre. Bearing in mind that the tides can run to 2 knots, when you are crossing the channel as you must, it is not the time to go diagonally if the vis is poor or soemthing is approaching. It can also be quite difficult to work out if that ship down towards the mouth of the Thames in the Black Deep or the Barrow Deep. Generally speaking if its a container ship or a tanker, it will be in the Black Deep. Listen to Thames VTS and if necessary if the vis is lousy give them a call. the ships
have to report in at various places but their conversations are very clipped and quick so it can be difficult to work out whether they are entering or clearing the area. Thre are no specific rules like needing to cross at right angles but this is a precautionary area at the top of Fisherman's Gat and it is sensible to listen and look.

3. Bradwell Baffle wall. They have jsut started to remove it and there is an unmarked 150 exclusion zone around it, divers down and all that. The effect of this can be seen from the illustration in my NtM service (the only place you'll find it) and this shows that you should not go land side of the baffle wall even if no work is visible and you should approach the Bradwell Creek post not east of a line extending north from it until you are v close (because you should leave it to starboard on entering).

 

[tillergirl]

Exceeded the thread length, had to delete this:

Timing - You will see from my chart of Bradwell Creek that the creek is shallow. Locals don't actually always use the marked channel but I'm not recommending that to you. Going aground in the entrance is not the end of the world but it will help to have the required height of tide to enter. If you can get past the withies, there is enough water further in. Note that the course of the creek is not intuitive - yes you really do leave that green buoy to starboard on entering! Honest! You'll see what I mean. The creek is not lit although there is a little reflected light from the shore. It is stacked with moorings. If you have a choice, time arrival for daylight.

Tell us your draught, expected boat speed and when you are likely to do this.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

As ever TillerGirl, your depth of knowledge shines like a beacon, and your willingness to share that knowledge does you great credit.

How lucky we are to have you as a contributor to this forum!

 

[Colvic Watson]

I have Tillergirl's excellent book - but being a numpty of very little brain I can't work out if I'm using it right. Can I request a Youtube video of you using it to work out a departure time? Just one example would be fine and I can use the book to work out other routes with different sample speeds.

 

[tillergirl]

Good idea, LK. I'll try and sort something next week. I admit that the tables look daunting but they are not really.

 

[Amulet]

Just wrote about two sides of A4 here, hit the button and lost the lot! Eeek.

That happens to me sometimes too, and I can never quite work out what I did wrong.

However, I have found that if you hit "back" on your web browser you go back to an unencouragingly empty message screen, but if you then hit refresh you get your message back.

 

[tillergirl]

Oh I wish I'd known that last night! Thanks. I will definitely remember that. Mind you it was better written the second time! Found also that there is a charater limit to posts.

 

[Stemar]

Thanks to all, especially Tillergirl. I've printed off your long post. I'd get the book, but we're off to Falmouth tomorrow, so no time - unless it's available for Kindle! I'll certainly point the proud owner of his first boat at it.

As for timing, the passage plan is basically go out of Falmouth and turn left. Stop when we get tired, the forecast gets iffy or fuel low. This late in the season, I don't think I can be more precise than that! We could get to Dover or Ramsgate by Monday evening or it could take till well into next week. We will certainly try to time it to get all the help we can get, but as long as we're going forwards... (and there's enough water to get into Bradwell!)