Crossing the channel mast down?

[luckypaul]

Heading back to the Uk having come through the French inland waterways (Rhone - Saone - Canal de Bourgogne - Yonne - Seine). We were going to put the mast up but there's work to be done on it when we get back to Lymington so I think I'll carry on across the channel with it horizontal. We'd probably not be sailing anyway unless the wind was perfect ( shorthanded crossing shipping lanes at night probably safer under power).

Does anyone have any views on this? Any reasons not to? Obviously it'll be well secured ( Rhubarb being a Colvic Watson she has a wheelhouse which supports one end while 2 pieces of 4 x 4 are lashed together to give support on the fore deck.

 

[prv]

Obvious reason not to is the lack of backup power, but I guess plenty of single-engine mobos make the trip.

Roll characteristics may be different, but not sure that actually matters.

Pete

 

[graham]

In reasonable weather with a reliable engine I cant see it being a problem.

Deep keel yachts can have a nasty motion without the damping effect of the mast but a heavy motorsailer should be ok.

Obviously you will need to sort out a temporary steaming light.And some means of supporting a radar reflector VHF aerial etc.

Put twice as many lashings as you think needed to hold the spars in place then a few more for luck

 

[guernseyman]

Heading back to the Uk having come through the French inland waterways (Rhone - Saone - Canal de Bourgogne - Yonne - Seine). We were going to put the mast up but there's work to be done on it when we get back to Lymington so I think I'll carry on across the channel with it horizontal. We'd probably not be sailing anyway unless the wind was perfect ( shorthanded crossing shipping lanes at night probably safer under power).

Does anyone have any views on this? Any reasons not to? Obviously it'll be well secured ( Rhubarb being a Colvic Watson she has a wheelhouse which supports one end while 2 pieces of 4 x 4 are lashed together to give support on the fore deck.

Without a sail up a worry will be waves, swell, and wash causing roll. At the very least ensure the mast is lashed down (not just supported) at both ends. For clarity, the mast should be lashed to the 4 x 4, and the 4 x 4 should be lashed to deck fittings.

Imagine the boat on its beam ends!

 

[Poignard]

There are plenty of single-engined motor vessels travelling around the world at any time without mishap so there's no reason why you shouldn't.

There's always the possibility you might have the bad luck to have an engine failure or a fouled prop, in which case you might need to summon help, (if you can't sort it out yourself), so you want to have your vhf aerial mounted as high as possible.

 

[Robin]

We once accompanied a club boat that had lost it's mast, just from Weymouth to Poole and with mast strapped on deck. Experienced crew, but all were very seasick because of the motion.

 

[boomerangben]

I'm sure you are way ahead of me on this one, but the obvious ones are do you have a radio, GPS, AIS aerials, nav lights, radar and any other bits and pieces that are on your mast that you might need during the crossing?

Stability will be "improved" which may or may not be welcome (I doubt it) - make sure everything is secure if it gets lumpy since with improved stability, the boat will be more lively.

 

[Poignard]

No doubt there'll loads of well-intentioned calls to Solent C/G reporting a dismasted yacht in trouble

 

[snooks]

When we dismasted the Crash Test Boat the motion was thoroughly unpleasant, and that was in the Solent, on a rough day admittedly, but she did roll uncomfortably even with the rig over the side dampening things down.

Here's the video so you can see what it was like around 5:50 :



When we did the jury rig again on the crash test boat, even raising a stump dampened the motion considerably.

But if you pick a calm enough day there is no reason why not

 

[robmcg]

.......but most likely you will void your insurance unless you notify them in advance as it will be deemed your sailing vessel was not in a fit state to leave port if the mast is not rigged. (should you encounter any probems).

 

[Seajet]

My boat is very stable to wander around the decks on normally, but at the beginning & end of season when she's afloat with the mast down, it's a very different story, quite wobbly !

Another point not quite so obvious is the lack of usual hand-holds via rigging; your Watson should be less affected than a deep keel sailing boat, but even so I would certainly rig hand-lines around, and take extra / unusual precautions against seasickness even with people normally immune.

It would be worth making sure the fuel tank/s are clean too, and no sediment etc will get rolled and disturbed with unpleasant engine stopping results.

 

[vyv_cox]

My boat is very stable ..........engine stopping results.

When I saw that you had posted I wondered if you might have quoted a little of 'Narrow dog to Carcassonne'.

This is the story of a couple who took a UK narrow boat into the French Canals. Several others have done it but most have their craft shipped across the Channel. However, these two (plus Jim the 'narrow dog') motored across, having persuaded a senior member of the RYA to accompany them. They seemed more concerned that the boat might snap in half due to wavelength effects. However, all was well, although the weather was benign.

 

[LadyInBed]

Heading back to the Uk having come through the French inland waterways (Rhone - Saone - Canal de Bourgogne - Yonne - Seine).

I think you have been lulled into a false sense of security on the waterways!
How well is your mast and boom tied down?
Nothing wrong with crossing with mast down but you need a clam sea.
When are you intending to cross? If it is in the near future even if the wind is calm, the sea won't be and this week the wind will be behind you, it's a shame to waste it.

 

[DogWatch]

We were going to put the mast up but there's work to be done on it when we get back to Lymington so I think I'll carry on across the channel with it horizontal.

This may seem obvious, can't you do the work in France or even en-route to pass time on the canal. Mast stepping is DIY and dirt cheap at the canal ends isn't it?

Surely paying the minimum £125 for a crane in blighty would encourage sorting the mast over there, no?

 

[Searush]

Snooks (& a couple of others) have identified the key issue.

Taking your mast down completely changes your Centre of gravity & the boat doesn't roll any more, it sort of "Snaps" back upright. The motion is horrible & difficult to predict. You will be very seasick & heavily bruised I suspect.

How hard is it to put your mast up yourselves? 2 people can do mine (31' ketch) in about 20 mins. It will mnake a huge difference to your comfort & your ability to move around below & above decks - consider if you pick up a bit of netting or pot rope.

Having used my boat in an estuary with the mast down, I wouldn't dream of attempting a 20 odd mile passage (4 hours-ish?) like that. Less than 30 mins in you will be wishing you had the mast up & wondering whether to go back or force the issue & continue.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your trip & please report back.

 

[Seajet]

Narrow Dog To Carcassone

When I saw that you had posted I wondered if you might have quoted a little of 'Narrow dog to Carcassonne'.

This is the story of a couple who took a UK narrow boat into the French Canals. Several others have done it but most have their craft shipped across the Channel. However, these two (plus Jim the 'narrow dog') motored across, having persuaded a senior member of the RYA to accompany them. They seemed more concerned that the boat might snap in half due to wavelength effects. However, all was well, although the weather was benign.

An excellent book it is too, and the sequel, 'Narrow Dog To Indian River'.

I worked on a hotel barge in Burgundy one season, and met a couple of Brit's who'd motored a 38metre Luxemotor barge across the Channel.

Despite the size and having ballast ( as all the big peniches do ) they reckoned it was the most frightened they'd ever been in their lives, there were carefully preserved scrape marks on the bulkheads from the paintings swinging 45 degrees either side...

As others have said, unless there's a really good reason it would be worth stepping the mast/s in France, maybe even if having to take them down again once this side; at least a destination where it's easiest / cheapest could be determined ?

 

[Elessar]

My boat is very stable to wander around the decks on normally, but at the beginning & end of season when she's afloat with the mast down, it's a very different story, quite wobbly !

Another point not quite so obvious is the lack of usual hand-holds via rigging; your Watson should be less affected than a deep keel sailing boat, but even so I would certainly rig hand-lines around, and take extra / unusual precautions against seasickness even with people normally immune.

It would be worth making sure the fuel tank/s are clean too, and no sediment etc will get rolled and disturbed with unpleasant engine stopping results.

All agreed - when you take the mast down you hugely reduce the angular momentum so the roll period reduces.

Hand hold not a problem though, probably no need to go forward if you haven't any flappy things to have to tend

 

[Grehan]

Unless there's been a period of stable high pressure and some flat calm seas, imho, no thanks. The roll is likely to be horrible and your mast will need very well lashing. Everyone I've spoken to that's been caught out, for example rounding from Le Havre and into the Seine (quite a long inshore passage) says the same. There's a difference between a yacht without its mast and a motor boat what never had one.
[edit]
In all honesty, if you do do it, I'd be very interested to hear how it went. Fair winds, seas, etc. Bon voyage.

 

[OldBawley]

We had been cruising the French canals and now came down the Seine from Rouan to le Havre. The mast was still down, the plan was to proceed down to the Tancarville lock, and then take the Tancarville branch into le Havre to put the mast up. The mast is wood, very heavy compared to modern allu. One uses the ebb to go down the Seine, so on arrival at Tancarville, the bottom of the lock was 5 meters above the water level. Wanted to anchor in the basin before the lock but the lock keeper warned us, the basin would dry. Tried to anchor in the Seine, our CQR would not hold in the soft mud and huge current.
Then I saw a beautiful classic yacht speed by, direction Le Havre, mast down. Although twice the size of our little boat I thought “ What they can do, I can “ Wonderful sunny summer weather, we went down the Seine estuary to enter le Havre from outside.
Been cruising inland for so long, wind was completely out of my mind. It simply did not mater.
At the end of the estuary and on the way to Le havre we ware certainly not inland any more, the wind was a good force six from North and had been so for several days. We dived into a really rough sea, wind six Bf against a extremely violent ebb tide. Wow ! The little boat dived up to the cabin front in green water, no problem, if it ware not for the mast. The rope mast lashings ware soaked in water and so became longer. A violent wave pounded the wooden horse from under the mast on the foredeck. Mast fell to one side over the bow. The whole thing was still hanging together but I could not maintain speed or direction with a mast sticking 4 meter into the sea. I was young then, crawled with my back on deck under the mast and in a wavedive lifted 100 kg of mast up and jammed the horse back in place. We had no sea railing on our classic. In despair a man can do a lot. I jammed the horse further to the front of the boat, so tensioning the lashings.
Entering the harbour, the lifeboat went out. Came back later towing the big classic. Engine failure.
Ok, I made some big mistakes, still I like a standing mast at sea. Rope lashings do slacken in water.

 

[LadyInBed]

The little boat dived up to the cabin front in green water, no problem, if it ware not for the mast.

When I came down the Garonne it was a similar situation. I was really glad that I had put the mast up at the start of the trip rather than after I had arrived at Royan.