Jobs_a_ good_ un
New member
Think of me wed nxt week 8.00am nab tower to le harve Ist time ever (weather permitting)
Ill be ok wont I ?????????????????????
Ill be ok wont I ?????????????????????
Crossing the channel 1st time wed 25th may bit nervous
- Thread starter Jobs_a_ good_ un
- Start date
Vagabond
New member
If the weather is good you'll be fine.
The only thing to worry about is getting a bit bored going over.
Have a good time.
The only thing to worry about is getting a bit bored going over.
Have a good time.
mainshiptom
Active member
You will be fine, It is a nice feeling when you get to a bar on the other side and order a beer !
How long is your crossing?
Have a great time
tom
How long is your crossing?
Have a great time
tom
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Just remember the soft bits in the middle are never a problem, its the hard bits at either end that hurt
tcm
...
yes, i think you will be.
But i am always a bit hm iffy with people saying "leaving 8am" cos it mite be better earlier better, no? I wd always try and leave early as poss in near-daylight - or wait til 8am, or 9am or 10 am or whatever. Setting a departure time is a nono - setting an *earliest* departure time is fine tho.
Lehavre is er about 85 nm SE ish and and hence a bit upchannel from the nab, the prevailing winds from SW to W - on the beam. Yiou needto leave nab at start of general upchannel tidal flow. Is that 8am? That means leave an hour or more earlier from solent port.
so first bit you will be protected behind isle of wight and winds likely is SW sooo, head hard south not direct to lehavre if wind is f4 or more in sw . Don't waste the chance to get south if it's flattish.
Further out, sea conditions might get a bit bigger, not too bad, so then turn upchannel to have wind more on the stern, and "nip" the waves to the south: you would end up north of le havre really if continued on this new course.
Soon, with a bit more south, you will be levellish with the cherbourg (cotentin) peninsular and the sea drops. (not: generally, lovely long warm beaches with nice outdoor restaurants on the french coast whereas ooer cripes on windward uk side of channel) Anyway, so here you run due southwds along the coast in flatter sea.
With diffrent wind, obviously adjust. So with e-ly wind go south or even SW towards st vaast and then sneaky east when sea improves in Baie de Seine.
Having sed all this - whatever the weather, have a look back to stern and ask yerself - really, is this boat in any diffuiclty? And usually the answer is no - it's just humans used to fab houses who have a prob. feeling dodgy...
Main point is there only one Main Point - the wpt fro out entrance and it doesn't matter how you get there. It is rare that a direct route in planing boat is comfiest for a long run offshore. Apart from the wpt to the outer entrance (whih you have gotta hit, regardless) - any other waypoints are just forcing you down a route that yep is direct but for the boat and conditions may not be comfiest. And on mobo's of course, comfiness is next to godliness!
good luck!
But i am always a bit hm iffy with people saying "leaving 8am" cos it mite be better earlier better, no? I wd always try and leave early as poss in near-daylight - or wait til 8am, or 9am or 10 am or whatever. Setting a departure time is a nono - setting an *earliest* departure time is fine tho.
Lehavre is er about 85 nm SE ish and and hence a bit upchannel from the nab, the prevailing winds from SW to W - on the beam. Yiou needto leave nab at start of general upchannel tidal flow. Is that 8am? That means leave an hour or more earlier from solent port.
so first bit you will be protected behind isle of wight and winds likely is SW sooo, head hard south not direct to lehavre if wind is f4 or more in sw . Don't waste the chance to get south if it's flattish.
Further out, sea conditions might get a bit bigger, not too bad, so then turn upchannel to have wind more on the stern, and "nip" the waves to the south: you would end up north of le havre really if continued on this new course.
Soon, with a bit more south, you will be levellish with the cherbourg (cotentin) peninsular and the sea drops. (not: generally, lovely long warm beaches with nice outdoor restaurants on the french coast whereas ooer cripes on windward uk side of channel) Anyway, so here you run due southwds along the coast in flatter sea.
With diffrent wind, obviously adjust. So with e-ly wind go south or even SW towards st vaast and then sneaky east when sea improves in Baie de Seine.
Having sed all this - whatever the weather, have a look back to stern and ask yerself - really, is this boat in any diffuiclty? And usually the answer is no - it's just humans used to fab houses who have a prob. feeling dodgy...
Main point is there only one Main Point - the wpt fro out entrance and it doesn't matter how you get there. It is rare that a direct route in planing boat is comfiest for a long run offshore. Apart from the wpt to the outer entrance (whih you have gotta hit, regardless) - any other waypoints are just forcing you down a route that yep is direct but for the boat and conditions may not be comfiest. And on mobo's of course, comfiness is next to godliness!
good luck!
Jobs_a_ good_ un
New member
Hi tide is at 11.03 am so I will set off as early as poss maybe
5.00 am this I presume will take me with the tide towards le harve as the tide comes in up the channel towards dover and out the other way revs are now sorted so I hope to cruise at 18-20 knots 82 miles from nab tower to le harve tide will be on neaps What do you reckon
Yours Truly Riff Raff
5.00 am this I presume will take me with the tide towards le harve as the tide comes in up the channel towards dover and out the other way revs are now sorted so I hope to cruise at 18-20 knots 82 miles from nab tower to le harve tide will be on neaps What do you reckon
Yours Truly Riff Raff
tcm
...
damn! he has used my trick of getting others to do the planning
It's springs next week matey poops! press the 14 day tide timetable above and it's biggest on thursday so weds is biggish really and the big number on the tidal atlas apply. Good news is that the wind from windguru forcast 2-3 sw which is fine. But sea could be moderate.
hi tide dover weds am is 00:16 bst, so slack at the nab from earliest 5.5 hours ( ie six on the tiodal atlas) later means earliest 5.45 am bst, make it 6:15bst and the outflow from the solent will take you there from dawn.
The tide will pull you west upchannel at least 3nm each hour so that's 16 miles sideways from target out of about 80 miles so er er each mile is 2/3 degree so best (fastest route) to head at least 11 degrees MORE than gps shows to the entrance waypoint, perhaps best 15 degrees with wind leeway blah but lessthan 20 degrees more. No chance of this being held with shipping lanes - straighten up due south over them, then find brng to that le havree entrance waypoint and evebn if flat water - head off again 10degrees morte than than that bearing shows if halfway etc. Sounds mad but it works: If you don't hold course 15ish degrees more than the brng to lehavre ent shows from nab, then at the end you will be fighting south along the coast and across the tide to stay offshore and take longer - you should be able to stay with wind near stern, not on beam. in other words, use the apilot to hold a course, but don't "track" or "goto" a waypoint cos the numptie puter will head off in that direction and oops correct as get dragged with tide and oops correct again, and all much further. Correcting south (other than for dire wind conditons as prev post) along that fr coast should not be needed - unles you obey the gps target bearing from the start, so don't
It's springs next week matey poops! press the 14 day tide timetable above and it's biggest on thursday so weds is biggish really and the big number on the tidal atlas apply. Good news is that the wind from windguru forcast 2-3 sw which is fine. But sea could be moderate.
hi tide dover weds am is 00:16 bst, so slack at the nab from earliest 5.5 hours ( ie six on the tiodal atlas) later means earliest 5.45 am bst, make it 6:15bst and the outflow from the solent will take you there from dawn.
The tide will pull you west upchannel at least 3nm each hour so that's 16 miles sideways from target out of about 80 miles so er er each mile is 2/3 degree so best (fastest route) to head at least 11 degrees MORE than gps shows to the entrance waypoint, perhaps best 15 degrees with wind leeway blah but lessthan 20 degrees more. No chance of this being held with shipping lanes - straighten up due south over them, then find brng to that le havree entrance waypoint and evebn if flat water - head off again 10degrees morte than than that bearing shows if halfway etc. Sounds mad but it works: If you don't hold course 15ish degrees more than the brng to lehavre ent shows from nab, then at the end you will be fighting south along the coast and across the tide to stay offshore and take longer - you should be able to stay with wind near stern, not on beam. in other words, use the apilot to hold a course, but don't "track" or "goto" a waypoint cos the numptie puter will head off in that direction and oops correct as get dragged with tide and oops correct again, and all much further. Correcting south (other than for dire wind conditons as prev post) along that fr coast should not be needed - unles you obey the gps target bearing from the start, so don't
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
High tide, where? As tcm says, much more important to time departure with wind and tide in same direction rather than against for as much of the crossing as possible unless the wind is very light (less than F3). Its not necessary to arrive at Le Havre at HW or anywhere near as I'm pretty sure the marina is all tides access and any tidal flow as you get near Le Havre will not help or hinder you much. Neaps is good though
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Re: damn! he has used my trick of getting others to do the planning
Do you mean EAST upchannel? If HW Dover @ 0016 then LW is about 0600 and east going up Channel flow starts about then. So, if wind is SW, looks like 0500 depart Chichester, 0600 off Nab, Le Havre by 1100. If wind has any east in it, then wait for tide to turn at about 1230 off Nab
Good point about being pushed sideways but if he's on autopilot linked to GPS, the pilot will keep him on track and in any case he should be watching the XTE
Do you mean EAST upchannel? If HW Dover @ 0016 then LW is about 0600 and east going up Channel flow starts about then. So, if wind is SW, looks like 0500 depart Chichester, 0600 off Nab, Le Havre by 1100. If wind has any east in it, then wait for tide to turn at about 1230 off Nab
Good point about being pushed sideways but if he's on autopilot linked to GPS, the pilot will keep him on track and in any case he should be watching the XTE
tcm
...
yes re east upchannel : no, re autopilot
oops yes east upchannel of course
autopilot linked to gps er no - that's exactly what i don';t mean: he'll get there, but twill take a lot longer. The linked apilot will initially head off directly to lehavre but tide will mean he gets pulled to the left hand side of the track and twil correct and correct again, and again, and again - loads of little corrections across the track all the way along means he will travel mich further to le havre than any 82 miles.
Much better in big tide to look at the bearing from nab, and set off more southwards from the styart and NOT press any "goto" things - just press "auto" to hold the bearing - he will then do (say) 75nm in that direction and the tide will draggim the rest free of charge. Last little bit he will come more and more in line with direct route and of course "goto" the ent wpt from there.
oops yes east upchannel of course
autopilot linked to gps er no - that's exactly what i don';t mean: he'll get there, but twill take a lot longer. The linked apilot will initially head off directly to lehavre but tide will mean he gets pulled to the left hand side of the track and twil correct and correct again, and again, and again - loads of little corrections across the track all the way along means he will travel mich further to le havre than any 82 miles.
Much better in big tide to look at the bearing from nab, and set off more southwards from the styart and NOT press any "goto" things - just press "auto" to hold the bearing - he will then do (say) 75nm in that direction and the tide will draggim the rest free of charge. Last little bit he will come more and more in line with direct route and of course "goto" the ent wpt from there.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Re: yes re east upchannel : no, re autopilot
I'm not sure I understand this. Basically you head off slightly into the tide to start with and then swoop down on your destination with the tide slightly behind you at the end? Not sure how you calculate how far uptide you go to begin with to make the best of the downtide bit. 15deg seems a mite arbritrary. So you go a bit slower to start with and a bit faster at the end? Seems to me not to make much difference to just setting the autopilot to the GPS and settling back for a snooze. How big the corrections are will depend on the max XTE that you set the pilot to go to before it corrects. Small XTE, small correction. The other slight advantage of staying on track is that if the electronics go blank, at least you know roughly where you are 'coz nobody plots fixes every 30mins on a mobo do they?
Letting the tide take you off track is a good idea if the tide changes direction during the trip because the tide change will take you back again. Oft used by yotties but personally I could'nt be arsed to do that either.
I'm not sure I understand this. Basically you head off slightly into the tide to start with and then swoop down on your destination with the tide slightly behind you at the end? Not sure how you calculate how far uptide you go to begin with to make the best of the downtide bit. 15deg seems a mite arbritrary. So you go a bit slower to start with and a bit faster at the end? Seems to me not to make much difference to just setting the autopilot to the GPS and settling back for a snooze. How big the corrections are will depend on the max XTE that you set the pilot to go to before it corrects. Small XTE, small correction. The other slight advantage of staying on track is that if the electronics go blank, at least you know roughly where you are 'coz nobody plots fixes every 30mins on a mobo do they?
Letting the tide take you off track is a good idea if the tide changes direction during the trip because the tide change will take you back again. Oft used by yotties but personally I could'nt be arsed to do that either.
hlb
RIP
Take no notice of this lot, they know nowt. Holidays come, err when they come and getting up depends more on the beer the night before than tide. Dont forgey wimin will want to dry there hair and do that last minute shopping. The dog will want a pee, just as you start to undo the ropes.
So setting off time is always 11am or maybe 12 irispective of tide. If it's OK when you set off, it will be more or less ok when you get there, but much better if wind is coming from where your going. In the middle even quite big waves are quite gentle and easy, but much worserer closer to shore.
So setting off time is always 11am or maybe 12 irispective of tide. If it's OK when you set off, it will be more or less ok when you get there, but much better if wind is coming from where your going. In the middle even quite big waves are quite gentle and easy, but much worserer closer to shore.
tcm
...
er is this a windup?
um, well, yerknow, tidal vectors and er that lot, no? Yeah, bit arbitrary, the arbitration process being to allow for the tide, insofar as if we allow say 4hours enroute, that's four hours of tide, have a look at the tidal atlas for each hour at springs, addem up, erm yerknow, vector offset from start point gives a new bearing to follow which will allow for the er ooh wotsit called, ooh yes, the tide...
um, i can't be alone in this forum knowing how to find tides, and then work them, can i? Hurry up someone, the raggies will start sniggering ....
um, well, yerknow, tidal vectors and er that lot, no? Yeah, bit arbitrary, the arbitration process being to allow for the tide, insofar as if we allow say 4hours enroute, that's four hours of tide, have a look at the tidal atlas for each hour at springs, addem up, erm yerknow, vector offset from start point gives a new bearing to follow which will allow for the er ooh wotsit called, ooh yes, the tide...
um, i can't be alone in this forum knowing how to find tides, and then work them, can i? Hurry up someone, the raggies will start sniggering ....
powerskipper
Well-known member
Re: er is this a windup?
your right . /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
your right . /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
kindredspirit
Well-known member
Re: er is this a windup?
The slower you go, the more important, tidal vectors are. And of course springs have more of an effect than neaps.
The faster you go, the less they come into the equation. Most mobos don't bother. I don't because all my boating is either with the tide or sometimes unfortunately against the tide. I'm never crossing tides, thank goodness like in the Channel.
The slower you go, the more important, tidal vectors are. And of course springs have more of an effect than neaps.
The faster you go, the less they come into the equation. Most mobos don't bother. I don't because all my boating is either with the tide or sometimes unfortunately against the tide. I'm never crossing tides, thank goodness like in the Channel.
boatone
Well-known member
Re: er is this a windup?
Well I think you could make it all a bit easier to understand.
1. If you try to go straight across when the tide is flowing up channel towards Dover you will get swept up channel a bit or a lot depending on how strong the tide is and how quickly you are travelling.
2. If you try to go straight across when the tide is flowing down channel away from Dover you will get swept down channel a bit or a lot etc etc
3. If you time it so that you travel part way with tide up and part way with tide down you will get swept up a bit and down a bit and they will sort of cancel each other out.
4. If you travel really slowly you could go up a bit down a bit several times.
5. If you look at the tide information and use a pencil and paper and a bit of brain power you should be able to work out all the rithmatic and calculate how much up and downing you will do and draw some lines like trigonometry.
6. If you do step 5 really well you will be able to see which way you need to point the boat to get to where you want to go in the shortest possible time.
7. Real seafarers call all this tidal vectors or passage planning or all sorts of other buzzy wordy things but its really just simple rithmatic.
8. Trouble is you need to do all this as well as keep your eyes open for dodgy big ships, floating just below the surface containers etc also not forgetting lots of peering at gps screen and chart plotter thingy and compass and trying to make sense of it all.
9. Thats why I stay on the Thames.....turn left or right....lots of pubs every mile or so.....
Well I think you could make it all a bit easier to understand.
1. If you try to go straight across when the tide is flowing up channel towards Dover you will get swept up channel a bit or a lot depending on how strong the tide is and how quickly you are travelling.
2. If you try to go straight across when the tide is flowing down channel away from Dover you will get swept down channel a bit or a lot etc etc
3. If you time it so that you travel part way with tide up and part way with tide down you will get swept up a bit and down a bit and they will sort of cancel each other out.
4. If you travel really slowly you could go up a bit down a bit several times.
5. If you look at the tide information and use a pencil and paper and a bit of brain power you should be able to work out all the rithmatic and calculate how much up and downing you will do and draw some lines like trigonometry.
6. If you do step 5 really well you will be able to see which way you need to point the boat to get to where you want to go in the shortest possible time.
7. Real seafarers call all this tidal vectors or passage planning or all sorts of other buzzy wordy things but its really just simple rithmatic.
8. Trouble is you need to do all this as well as keep your eyes open for dodgy big ships, floating just below the surface containers etc also not forgetting lots of peering at gps screen and chart plotter thingy and compass and trying to make sense of it all.
9. Thats why I stay on the Thames.....turn left or right....lots of pubs every mile or so.....
Jobs_a_ good_ un
New member
Re: damn! he has used my trick of getting others to do the planning
Planning on doing a passage plan monday and of course reading all the tidal diamonds on the chart and allowing for the tide.I did tidal vectors and bearings on my powerboat 1 & 2
Your right its springs next weak with a tidal range of 3.9m I believe
I could do as mike f suggests and just go over on the chart plotter gps and auto pilot but as you say I will be pushed up channel and the auto pilot will constantly be correcting the course
All my charts are on the boat so cant do a passage plan yet
Any way Im just a tad nervous Ive never been more than 10 miles from land before
think of me wed morn I will post how it went wed pm
Oh and by the way why is my new name riff raff
Planning on doing a passage plan monday and of course reading all the tidal diamonds on the chart and allowing for the tide.I did tidal vectors and bearings on my powerboat 1 & 2
Your right its springs next weak with a tidal range of 3.9m I believe
I could do as mike f suggests and just go over on the chart plotter gps and auto pilot but as you say I will be pushed up channel and the auto pilot will constantly be correcting the course
All my charts are on the boat so cant do a passage plan yet
Any way Im just a tad nervous Ive never been more than 10 miles from land before
think of me wed morn I will post how it went wed pm
Oh and by the way why is my new name riff raff
tcm
...
dumbing down
um, ok. Though your so-called simplistic explanation used the word "trigonometry". Are you a bit posh and showing off, eh? Next thing we'll have trendy t-shirts that say "peace man : down with vector addition- and up yours to the same magnitude!"
um, ok. Though your so-called simplistic explanation used the word "trigonometry". Are you a bit posh and showing off, eh? Next thing we'll have trendy t-shirts that say "peace man : down with vector addition- and up yours to the same magnitude!"
boatone
Well-known member
Tee shirts.....
how about ....lets rock and roll along a rhumb line.....?
how about ....lets rock and roll along a rhumb line.....?
hlb
RIP
Re: er is this a windup?
Taking every thing into the equasion you would never go anywhere. Tide hardly ever reaches one knot mid channel. boat might do 22 or 18 dependant on bunged up bottom. Makes much more sence to me on normal sort of trips, 100 miles or less, to just go at a sencible time, less storm is brewing of course. Cant think theres much to be gained by going hither and thither, less caught out in crap. Easy way is, stick a way point in at this end and another at tother and let the auto pilot sort it out, it might go a bit slower when corecting one way, but make up for it when correcting back.
Hardly a mile to be saved even if you get it perfect. So hardly worth the effort!!
Taking every thing into the equasion you would never go anywhere. Tide hardly ever reaches one knot mid channel. boat might do 22 or 18 dependant on bunged up bottom. Makes much more sence to me on normal sort of trips, 100 miles or less, to just go at a sencible time, less storm is brewing of course. Cant think theres much to be gained by going hither and thither, less caught out in crap. Easy way is, stick a way point in at this end and another at tother and let the auto pilot sort it out, it might go a bit slower when corecting one way, but make up for it when correcting back.
Hardly a mile to be saved even if you get it perfect. So hardly worth the effort!!