Croatia determined to destroy their yacht tourism

[nthackray]

Just returned from a cruise from Montenegro to Croatia in my own boat. I get used to the mad bureaucracy - paying for a vignette to leave, paying the tourism tax, paying the admin fee etc. I then sail to Cavtat as first port of entry -drop hook back into the Q area and get ashore. Find the harbour master office closed. Police tell me I have no alternative but to go immediately to Gruz. "There is no negotiation on this". So we leave and motor to Gruz. Tie up at the Q dock and spend an hour being relieved of the various taxes and charges. I return to boat and as we prepare to leave the dock master runs up ans says I haven't paid for my berth. I dont want one says I. I am just doing my customs clearance. Amazingly it appears I have to pay 25 euros to moor at the customs dock whilst I complete formalities.

Two weeks later we return to check out. We leave Gruz and make direct for Tivat taking pictures of the walled town as we pass by just outside Gruz/Dubrovnik. Fifteen miles later I am approached by a Croatian police launch who board and demand to see crew list and passports. All good except I have been seen it appears, by the harbour master passing the walled town. Apparently the rule is you have to proceed directlty offshore for half a mile before turning towards destination. So I am fined 666 Khuna (about 80 quid) on the spot. I argued that I could no possibly know this rule as not the police, the harbour master or the customs told me at check out and nothing is mentioned in my pilot. Politely but firmly I was told they had no choice but to fine me as the matter had been formally reported. Croatia seems to have adopted a policy that gouging foreign yachties is easy game. How different it was twenty years ago. I shan't be back. Shame - it's a beautiful place.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/sailors-flee-croatia-as-eu-fees-imposed-408

There have been threads on this recently. I have never been and I don't think I ever will, although it does have its advocates here.

 

[nthackray]

Madness. Total madness.

 

[Seven Spades]

Write to:

Ministry of Tourism
Address: Prisavlje 14, HR-10000 Zagreb, Croatia
Phone: +385 1 6169 111


It is the only way. This needs to come from the top down. Reference all the complaining threads in this and any other forum.

 

[Seven Spades]

Try copying in the following:-


State Secretary
Frano Matušić
drzavni.tajnik@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169 240
Fax: + 385 1 6169 296

Cabinet of the Minister
kabinet@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169 350
Fax: +385 1 6169 396
Media Questions: press@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169 224

Head of the General Secretariat of the Ministry
Ivo Bašić
tajnistvo@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169-343
Fax: +385 1 6169-205

Assistant Minister
Olivera Shejbal
trziste@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169 360
Fax: +385 1 6169 379

Assistant Minister
Robert Pende
razvoj@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169 290
Fax: +385 1 6169 183

Assistant Minister
Martina Jantol
pravni@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169 243
Fax: +385 1 6169 205

Assistant Minister
Snježana Brzica
tzutd@mint.hr
Phone: +385 1 6169 288
Fax: +385 1 6169 373

 

[nthackray]

I'll do that. Thanks.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Just returned from a cruise from Montenegro to Croatia in my own boat. I get used to the mad bureaucracy - paying for a vignette to leave, paying the tourism tax, paying the admin fee etc. I then sail to Cavtat as first port of entry -drop hook back into the Q area and get ashore. Find the harbour master office closed. Police tell me I have no alternative but to go immediately to Gruz. "There is no negotiation on this". So we leave and motor to Gruz. Tie up at the Q dock and spend an hour being relieved of the various taxes and charges. I return to boat and as we prepare to leave the dock master runs up ans says I haven't paid for my berth. I dont want one says I. I am just doing my customs clearance. Amazingly it appears I have to pay 25 euros to moor at the customs dock whilst I complete formalities.

Two weeks later we return to check out. We leave Gruz and make direct for Tivat taking pictures of the walled town as we pass by just outside Gruz/Dubrovnik. Fifteen miles later I am approached by a Croatian police launch who board and demand to see crew list and passports. All good except I have been seen it appears, by the harbour master passing the walled town. Apparently the rule is you have to proceed directlty offshore for half a mile before turning towards destination. So I am fined 666 Khuna (about 80 quid) on the spot. I argued that I could no possibly know this rule as not the police, the harbour master or the customs told me at check out and nothing is mentioned in my pilot. Politely but firmly I was told they had no choice but to fine me as the matter had been formally reported. Croatia seems to have adopted a policy that gouging foreign yachties is easy game. How different it was twenty years ago. I shan't be back. Shame - it's a beautiful place.

i have no idea why you had to pay for a Vignette to leave Croatia , that really strange, you pay when you enter Croatia which include tax, light house dues and a fews other things , for a 12 mts yacht for three months its about 140 euros .,
or it was last year.

as far as Cavata and the custom quay , it been well advertise her , on my site and loads of other places ,
the nice little earner they got going , its the only place i know of or heard off.
always to best to check else where .
the rules re checking in and out are very clear , you MUST CHECK in the first port and once checked out you must leave Croatia . this is their law and if you break it and get caught , then you must expect to be fined , just like if you speed in any road in the UK .
just last year in tranquil bay Greece when for the first time ever PP when out and fined everyone who didn't have an anchor light .
after saying all this if people did write to the listed department given maybe they may do something about the cavata con as i sure that it totally illegal, custom quay are free every where .
i have to say we never paid always refused and when reporting it to the PP and the harbor master , they just said it nothing to do with them.

 

[RupertW]

i have no idea why you had to pay for a Vignette to leave Croatia , that really strange, you pay when you enter Croatia which include tax, light house dues and a fews other things , for a 12 mts yacht for three months its about 140 euros .,
or it was last year.

as far as Cavata and the custom quay , it been well advertise her , on my site and loads of other places ,
the nice little earner they got going , its the only place i know of or heard off.
always to best to check else where .
the rules re checking in and out are very clear , you MUST CHECK in the first port and once checked out you must leave Croatia . this is their law and if you break it and get caught , then you must expect to be fined , just like if you speed in any road in the UK .
just last year in tranquil bay Greece when for the first time ever PP when out and fined everyone who didn't have an anchor light .
after saying all this if people did write to the listed department given maybe they may do something about the cavata con as i sure that it totally illegal, custom quay are free every where .
i have to say we never paid always refused and when reporting it to the PP and the harbor master , they just said it nothing to do with them.

We always avoid checking in at Cavtat by crossing to Italy and back again to Korcula from Corfu - not much of a dogleg and we like Italy. But Ais transmission is not your friend so I'm glad we don't have it yet.

No good from Montenegro of course and that's one reason we've never been there alas. Still find croatia my favourite med country but we've only been to a few.

 

[Heckler]

Just returned from a cruise from Montenegro to Croatia in my own boat. I get used to the mad bureaucracy - paying for a vignette to leave, paying the tourism tax, paying the admin fee etc. I then sail to Cavtat as first port of entry -drop hook back into the Q area and get ashore. Find the harbour master office closed. Police tell me I have no alternative but to go immediately to Gruz. "There is no negotiation on this". So we leave and motor to Gruz. Tie up at the Q dock and spend an hour being relieved of the various taxes and charges. I return to boat and as we prepare to leave the dock master runs up ans says I haven't paid for my berth. I dont want one says I. I am just doing my customs clearance. Amazingly it appears I have to pay 25 euros to moor at the customs dock whilst I complete formalities.

Two weeks later we return to check out. We leave Gruz and make direct for Tivat taking pictures of the walled town as we pass by just outside Gruz/Dubrovnik. Fifteen miles later I am approached by a Croatian police launch who board and demand to see crew list and passports. All good except I have been seen it appears, by the harbour master passing the walled town. Apparently the rule is you have to proceed directlty offshore for half a mile before turning towards destination. So I am fined 666 Khuna (about 80 quid) on the spot. I argued that I could no possibly know this rule as not the police, the harbour master or the customs told me at check out and nothing is mentioned in my pilot. Politely but firmly I was told they had no choice but to fine me as the matter had been formally reported. Croatia seems to have adopted a policy that gouging foreign yachties is easy game. How different it was twenty years ago. I shan't be back. Shame - it's a beautiful place.

Another reason for me to not want to go there! I have read the stories about the gouging over the years, done flotilla ing in Greece with Sailing Holidays and saw them pull out of Croatia for what I heard was a similar reason and never flotilla ed there because I saw you had to pay even in those days!
Stuff em!
Stu

 

[RichardS]

Just returned from a cruise from Montenegro to Croatia in my own boat. I get used to the mad bureaucracy - paying for a vignette to leave, paying the tourism tax, paying the admin fee etc. I then sail to Cavtat as first port of entry -drop hook back into the Q area and get ashore. Find the harbour master office closed. Police tell me I have no alternative but to go immediately to Gruz. "There is no negotiation on this". So we leave and motor to Gruz. Tie up at the Q dock and spend an hour being relieved of the various taxes and charges. I return to boat and as we prepare to leave the dock master runs up ans says I haven't paid for my berth. I dont want one says I. I am just doing my customs clearance. Amazingly it appears I have to pay 25 euros to moor at the customs dock whilst I complete formalities.

Two weeks later we return to check out. We leave Gruz and make direct for Tivat taking pictures of the walled town as we pass by just outside Gruz/Dubrovnik. Fifteen miles later I am approached by a Croatian police launch who board and demand to see crew list and passports. All good except I have been seen it appears, by the harbour master passing the walled town. Apparently the rule is you have to proceed directlty offshore for half a mile before turning towards destination. So I am fined 666 Khuna (about 80 quid) on the spot. I argued that I could no possibly know this rule as not the police, the harbour master or the customs told me at check out and nothing is mentioned in my pilot. Politely but firmly I was told they had no choice but to fine me as the matter had been formally reported. Croatia seems to have adopted a policy that gouging foreign yachties is easy game. How different it was twenty years ago. I shan't be back. Shame - it's a beautiful place.

I assume all the payments mentioned in the first line were payments to leave Montenegro as there are no payments to leave Croatia.

Once you clear out from a Croatian port you have to immediately head offshore. You cannot cruise along the coast. I thought that this was well known and am very surprised that it is not in the pilot books. JimB says "Once clearance to leave is obtained, the vessel must depart promptly" meaning must depart Croatian waters.

I don't make any excuses for the stringent rules which are clearly beyond commonsense but I did think that they were are generally well known amongst cruisers.

Paying for the Customs dock is the norm in Cavtat and has now apparently spread to Gruz. However, arguing with "officialdom" about who pays for what is definitely a feature of Croatian cruising.

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/sailors-flee-croatia-as-eu-fees-imposed-408

There have been threads on this recently. I have never been and I don't think I ever will, although it does have its advocates here.

you don't know what you missing .
what Croatia has here on YBW is, an hand full of Brits who thing the only cruising ground in the Med is in Greece , and the Ionian at that , they very happy to Cruising in a sea full of plastic bags ,anchorage full the to the brim , pay 15 euros every time they enter Greece , the only country in the EU you have to , pay two days for a one night stay on a quay , eat the same boring food , now having to replace a DEPKA at a cost of 50 euro and if its no stamp before a year you could be fined of having to buy a new one , an cruising Tax hanging over them .
BUT worst of all if you happen to need help from the GC or happen to get towed in and your spotted , your will be required to have your boat hauled out and a survey before you can used the boat again .
all this and they say nothing .
BUT they go off to Croatia break the country law , get caught and fined them moan about it.
give me a break.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I assume all the payments mentioned in the first line were payments to leave Montenegro as there are no payments to leave Croatia.

Once you clear out from a Croatian port you have to immediately head offshore. You cannot cruise along the coast. I thought that this was well known and am very surprised that it is not in the pilot books. JimB says "Once clearance to leave is obtained, the vessel must depart promptly" meaning must depart Croatian waters.

I don't make any excuses for the stringent rules which are clearly beyond commonsense but I did think that they were are generally well known amongst cruisers.

Paying for the Customs dock is the norm in Cavtat and has now apparently spread to Gruz. However, arguing with "officialdom" about who pays for what is definitely a feature of Croatian cruising.

Richard

its only the Norm Richard because people won't complain about it and are happy to pay at the time so they don't have the hassle . then moan about it after wards on here .
what I don't understand is why when we refused to pay which we have both time we checked into cavata ,
they just move onto the next boat but other says they made to pay .
lets get some thing very clear here , your not paying a mooring fee to go onto the custom quay in Cavata , your paying for them to take your lines , so don't give them your lines .

 

[Seven Spades]

you don't know what you missing .
what Croatia has here on YBW is, an hand full of Brits who thing the only cruising ground in the Med is in Greece , and the Ionian at that , they very happy to Cruising in a sea full of plastic bags ,anchorage full the to the brim , pay 15 euros every time they enter Greece , the only country in the EU you have to , pay two days for a one night stay on a quay , eat the same boring food , now having to replace a DEPKA at a cost of 50 euro and if its no stamp before a year you could be fined of having to buy a new one , an cruising Tax hanging over them .
BUT worst of all if you happen to need help from the GC or happen to get towed in and your spotted , your will be required to have your boat hauled out and a survey before you can used the boat again .
all this and they say nothing .
BUT they go off to Croatia break the country law , get caught and fined them moan about it.
give me a break.

Hang on a minute not everyone reads these forums, I read them and had not picked up that you have to leave Croatian waters in a perpendicular direction after checkout out... What happened to "innocent passage"? Clearly you are there all the time so are aware of all the traps. It is a very frustrating and unnecessary experience for a foreign visitor to face a litany of stupid fines and charges.

 

[mjcoon]

No good from Montenegro of course and that's one reason we've never been there alas. Still find croatia my favourite med country but we've only been to a few.

We did a bareboat charter from Dubrovnik to Kotor (Montenegro) and back last year. Seafarer offer a similar "flotilla" trip but I don't know how that is going. Opportunities for bureaucracy in the whole clearance business of course, but really not that bad in our experience.

Mike.

 

[Tomahawk]

All part of the fudge and general foul up that is the sainted Union.
Expect it to get worse as Europe fails to deal with itself properly.

 

[nthackray]

Your point on leaving Croatian waters may be right, but that means sailing 12 miles west. Providing you make straight for your destination without stopping there really shouldnt be a problem. The absurd thing is on arriving from MOntenegro you can make for any route providing you stop at the first available port of entry. It seems to me having read several threads on this that the policy is to sow confusion amongst visiting yachtsmen and then fine them for failing to understand the rules.

 

[RichardS]

The absurd thing is on arriving from MOntenegro you can make for any route providing you stop at the first available port of entry.

I've never sailed from Montenegro to Croatia but my understanding is that if you sail from Montenegro you have to clear in at Cavtat. If it's closed you will be directed elsewhere. I suppose if you kept 12 or more miles offshore before entering any Croatian waters then you could choose a different port of entry but you would be adding several hours to your course.

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

Hang on a minute not everyone reads these forums, I read them and had not picked up that you have to leave Croatian waters in a perpendicular direction after checkout out... What happened to "innocent passage"? Clearly you are there all the time so are aware of all the traps. It is a very frustrating and unnecessary experience for a foreign visitor to face a litany of stupid fines and charges.

i agree to part of your posting "It is a very frustrating and unnecessary experience for a foreign visitor to face a litany of stupid fines and charges."
I don't know about you but before we visit a new country and we have visit most country in the Med and the Atlantic coast as well as northern Europe coast , i first research what laws they maybe , mostly as far as checking in and out , i don't just turn up and hope for the best.
lucky now we have the internet and for most country you haven't got to do anything , once we all had to clear in and out .
as far as Croatia goes ,the info isn't just on YBW , you find it on the Croatia gov site , noonsite, Wolfgang , RYA, my own site , the list goes on .

 

[Bobc]

The more I hear about the silliness going on in various parts of the Med, the less it makes me want to go.

It seems that you have ridiulous mooring fees in the Eatern Med, ridiculous taxes and cruising permits in the Eastern Med, and an over-zealous policing situation (regarding boat equipment and safety complience) in places like Portugal.

I think I'll definitly be turning right.

 

[RupertW]

I've never sailed from Montenegro to Croatia but my understanding is that if you sail from Montenegro you have to clear in at Cavtat. If it's closed you will be directed elsewhere. I suppose if you kept 12 or more miles offshore before entering any Croatian waters then you could choose a different port of entry but you would be adding several hours to your course.

Richard

I look around me right now anchored in a lovely harbour that is new to me after years of sailing in and out of Croatia and know that I could spend decades here and still not visit every stopping place. i don't know why they do the daft bureaucracy either but Greece was more alien to me and took far longer until last year. Italy has been perfectly laid back until June, but the prize of being in Croatia is worth a lot more than the hassle so far. And in my experience in every country including the UK only rude gits get fined. The rest of us have long learnt that smiling subservience, delight at being in their lovely country and a sincere look of appalled ingnorance of the rules always ends well. My wife has this down to a perfect art and tells me to shut up until it's all over. US cops seem to crack most easily and Aussie ones are the hardest - Croatia somewhere in the middle.