Croatia as a base?

[boatmike]

Gentle livaboards. I am currently fitting out my little MoBo (33ft Aquastar Oceanranger) for a trip down to the Med in 2015. I shall use this years season as a proving time for all the modifications I have made including Aircon, Generator, Watermaker etc. and we are intending a leisurely potter down the French Canals early 2015 and on reaching the Med going East ASAP. Currently our thinking was to aim for Corfu or Prevesa, both of which I know reasonably well, then next year (2016) exploring the islands. However, with the Greek situation regarding taxes et al I was thinking perhaps to potter up to Dubrovnic or nearby instead.
The question for all is "What is the current situation in Croatia regarding cruising, leaving the boat there overwinter, relative costs of food, diesel, mooring etc? Is it a good idea or not? My thinking is that the Adriatic generally seems to have calmer seas, and generally good weather for 2 old farts on a little MoBo than some other areas and now that I have traded in my 37ft Cat might be a more appropriate place to potter and maybe even see Venice at leisure? What does the folorum think?

 

[rustybarge]

Gentle livaboards. I am currently fitting out my little MoBo (33ft Aquastar Oceanranger) for a trip down to the Med in 2015. I shall use this years season as a proving time for all the modifications I have made including Aircon, Generator, Watermaker etc. and we are intending a leisurely potter down the French Canals early 2015 and on reaching the Med going East ASAP. Currently our thinking was to aim for Corfu or Prevesa, both of which I know reasonably well, then next year (2016) exploring the islands. However, with the Greek situation regarding taxes et al I was thinking perhaps to potter up to Dubrovnic or nearby instead.
The question for all is "What is the current situation in Croatia regarding cruising, leaving the boat there overwinter, relative costs of food, diesel, mooring etc? Is it a good idea or not? My thinking is that the Adriatic generally seems to have calmer seas, and generally good weather for 2 old farts on a little MoBo than some other areas and now that I have traded in my 37ft Cat might be a more appropriate place to potter and maybe even see Venice at leisure? What does the folorum think?

I was watching 'escape to the continent' on beeb 2 last night which covered Croatia.
All I can say is that I'm in a state of shock at the high prices of property!!
They looked at a grotty little 2 bed apartment in central Dubrovnik, i giuessed £150k, it was £495k.
They then looked at a modern concrete house over garage 1/2 an hour from the city, jerry built diy house, i guessed £160k, it was £420k.
The new appartment on the coast was quite nice, and you could at least imagine an asking price of £300k.

...cheap it ain't.:ambivalence:

 

[boatmike]

I saw bits of the same programme and was taken by the scenery and waterfront and thought the property prices were not cheap but then I didn't expect them to be. Frankly though I don't care as I am not going to buy one. From what I have seen marina charges seem comparable so I am much more interested in the price of food and diesel etc. Property prices often dont reflect the cost of living in other respects. I could not afford to buy the house I was brought up in in Bermondsey now (about £750k) but I can still have a good night out and eat well in London for a reasonable price......

 

[rustybarge]

I saw bits of the same programme and was taken by the scenery and waterfront and thought the property prices were not cheap but then I didn't expect them to be. Frankly though I don't care as I am not going to buy one. From what I have seen marina charges seem comparable so I am much more interested in the price of food and diesel etc. Property prices often dont reflect the cost of living in other respects. I could not afford to buy the house I was brought up in in Bermondsey now (about £750k) but I can still have a good night out and eat well in London for a reasonable price......

Good point.
...and it looks like boating heaven, all those lovely little sheltered bays to drop anchor in, so no need to spend time in the marinas. Also it has easy access to Italy, and I believe the lake Como area is meant to be gorgeous.

 

[RupertW]

Good point.
...and it looks like boating heaven, all those lovely little sheltered bays to drop anchor in, so no need to spend time in the marinas. Also it has easy access to Italy, and I believe the lake Como area is meant to be gorgeous.

We are flying down to our marina (Kremik) near Split which has been a perfect base for us for last 3 years. We only get to the boat a few times a year so having a safe marina has been key, and there seems to be far less (none for us) petty theft than in the UK.

As for cruising location, overnight stays in marinas are fiercely expensive so we very rarely do them. We use town quays with water and electricity at about €30 every other night when we have guests, and free anchorages the rest of the time.

We will miss it when we change our base to Corfu next week but it seemed a pity to have a boat and keep it in the same place every season.

 

[charles_reed]

Compared to Greece (even with the mooted tax) and Turkey it's very expensive. From mid-June until September it's very crowded.
However, a delightful cruising area, but you need to be aware, anywhere in the Adriatic of the bora.
With an appreciation of the Croatian psyche, I'd not expect anything to be cheap, they did, after all, make an art-form of piracy.

However with Venice as a pulchrocentre I'd strongly advise anyone to try it, but I'd head for Gorizia as less expensive, even more charming people and at least the same level of boating competence.

 

[boatmike]

Thanks Charles and Rupert that was exactly the sort of input I was after. It can be seen from websites that the marinas are expensive for overnight stops but seem less prohibitive for overwintering. We will have a watermaker, aircon, generator and freezer so well able to take advantage of free anchorages. Visiting Venice has got to be done IMHO but a key issue with 2 big diesels to feed is the cost of diesel. How expensive is that? Also how easy is it to find places to stay in Venice itself?

 

[Pedro2729]

Mike
See pm.
Diesel similar to Greece I seem to remember, but apparently cheap if you go to Montenegro (but a lot of faff and vignettes etc if you to-fro montenegro/croatia). I no expert, could be worth it to fill big stinkpot tanks? Worth you doing more research?

 

[RichardS]

Diesel in Croatia is currently 9.5 - 10.0 Kuna per litre.

Richard

 

[tudorsailor]

If you going to liveaboard I am not sure any of the Croatian marinas are the places to spend a winter aboard. I would stay in Marina di Ragusa in Sicily for the winter. We are not liveaboards and left the yacht in Dubrovnik for the winter

The summer is a different matter. The Adriatic is a great place to cruise. Loads of anchorages as shown by the book called 777 anchorages - which is meant to be the number of anchorages in the Adriatic! Easy to avoid marinas

We sailed to Venice last Spring. Oh so cool

Have a look at my blog from the trip last year www.zebahdy.blogspot.com

TudorSailor

 

[sailaboutvic]

If you going to liveaboard I am not sure any of the Croatian marinas are the places to spend a winter aboard. I would stay in Marina di Ragusa in Sicily for the winter. We are not liveaboards and left the yacht in Dubrovnik for the winter

The summer is a different matter. The Adriatic is a great place to cruise. Loads of anchorages as shown by the book called 777 anchorages - which is meant to be the number of anchorages in the Adriatic! Easy to avoid marinas

We sailed to Venice last Spring. Oh so cool

Have a look at my blog from the trip last year www.zebahdy.blogspot.com

TudorSailor

Our plain for this year was to go to Sardinia again but we now thinking of Croatia , after 13 plus years sailing all over Greece and with the tax hanging over us all no matter how nice Greece is we fancy somewhere different ,
so my question is . what is the cost of clearing In to Croatia now they are in the EU ? do you still need to go to the first port to clear in ? and how did you find the 777 book ? Was it very useful .
Your info will be gratefully received .
Please other posting , no argument about how expenses Croatia is to Greece , that nothing new to most people , there always ways to cut down cost . It more important to is to sail and have fun and to see other country's

 

[boatmike]

Thanks again to everyone but TudorSailor thanks especially for sharing your blog. No we will not livaboard permently but will leave boat overwinter.

 

[RichardS]

Our plain for this year was to go to Sardinia again but we now thinking of Croatia , after 13 plus years sailing all over Greece and with the tax hanging over us all no matter how nice Greece is we fancy somewhere different ,
so my question is . what is the cost of clearing In to Croatia now they are in the EU ? do you still need to go to the first port to clear in ? and how did you find the 777 book ? Was it very useful .
Your info will be gratefully received .
Please other posting , no argument about how expenses Croatia is to Greece , that nothing new to most people , there always ways to cut down cost . It more important to is to sail and have fun and to see other country's

We have four different Croatia pilots/guides but 777 is by far the most useful even though it doesn't have the nice colour photos of the others. The new 2014/15 edition is supposed to be due out in the next couple of weeks so probably worth hanging on.

Even though Croatia is in the EU I believe that you still need to clear in at the first port of entry which will be Cavtat if heading North from Greece.

Richard

 

[BrianH]

We have four different Croatia pilots/guides but 777 is by far the most useful even though it doesn't have the nice colour photos of the others. The new 2014/15 edition is supposed to be due out in the next couple of weeks so probably worth hanging on.

I have the German version that has been '888' for a year or two. Probably the impending English one will be a translation of that with the extra anchorages. Yes, excellent, best guide going for Croatian waters.

Even though Croatia is in the EU I believe that you still need to clear in at the first port of entry...

Correct. No more the 12 month vignette cost but the usual fees for:

- Safety of Navigation
- Light Dues
- Information Chart
- Safety and pollution prevention
- Government Administration​

Plus the Sojourn Tax, when you will be asked how long you are staying and charged for that period based on your boat length (maximum number of potential 'sojourners'). Before you overstay you must extend at a port of entry or, if controlled beyond the paid-for period, pay a fine.

That is how it was explained to me in its first year but a friend entering at a more friendly port, was told it was enough to pay the extra when clearing.

 

[RichardS]

This is the current scale of charges for my 12m boat with twin engines:

SOJOURN TAX 2014
9 -12 m : Up to 8 days HRK200
Up to 15 days HRK350
Up to 30 days HRK500
Up to 90 days HRK650
Up to 1 Year HRK1,100

VIGNETTE 2014
Navigation fee is calculated using LOA and engine power:
Navigation fee = 20 * Length + 2 * Engine Kilowatts
For an 11.97 Metre yacht and 2 x 22KW engine
20 * 11.97 + 4 * 22KW = HRK327.40

Vignette total:
11.97 metre yacht 2 x 22 KW engine - Total HRK497.40
HRK 327.40 Navigation Fee
HRK 110 Light Dues
HRK 40 Sea Fees
HRK 20 Chart Fees

Hope this is helpful as a guide. 9HRK = 1GBP

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

Thanks for that Richard , just to get this right
A 12mts yacht with one engine of 40hp = 29.9 kW Would be charge at
20 * 12 plus 30 = 270 plus the sea fees chart fees and light dues , am I correct ?

I do have an old 888 somewhere that I picked up a few years back ,and it seen very good .

Oh by the way Ragusa was named as a good marina to winter out in , we was there three years ago and it's very good and safe with quite a lot of live boards , I would have no worries leaving a boat there while you went home .
This year we stayed in Licata , again it a safe. Marina but the fouling is unbelievable bad , and any one who tell you different is miss leading you , the first six boats that tyres to leave before we did had to be towed to the boat yard because the prop where jam . Just a word of warming . we had copper coat just put on a year before and we had to dive down to clear the prop and had some growth along the water line .

 

[RichardS]

Thanks for that Richard , just to get this right
A 12mts yacht with one engine of 40hp = 29.9 kW Would be charge at
20 * 12 plus 30 = 270 plus the sea fees chart fees and light dues , am I correct ?

For your boat it's 20*12 plus 2*30 = HRK300 plus Sea, Chart and Light fees plus the Sojourn tax which you pay according to how long you, rather than the boat, will actually be in Croatia. We currently pay the Soujorn tax in two or three small chunks as it's cheaper that way for occasional short visits although once we start to do more than three of those it will be cheaper to pay for the year.

I've got 2 engines so it's 4 * 22KW for me.

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

Hi Richard
Very useful info , it the first time I have seen the cost broken down , over the last few years we have spoken to a large amount of people on the ground that been to Croatia and it's a 50\50 split about being pester for money to anchor , we met people who never been asked and other who have almost been threaten , what your view please .? And one other question , is there or was there a fee for the amount of people the boat could hold ?
I sure quite a few are finding this posting interesting .

 

[RichardS]

Hi Richard
Very useful info , it the first time I have seen the cost broken down , over the last few years we have spoken to a large amount of people on the ground that been to Croatia and it's a 50\50 split about being pester for money to anchor , we met people who never been asked and other who have almost been threaten , what your view please .? And one other question , is there or was there a fee for the amount of people the boat could hold ?
I sure quite a few are finding this posting interesting .

There are a few places where you have to pay to anchor but there are so many anchorages in Croatia that it's very easy to avoid those if you don't want to pay the GBP20-ish. The main paying places are National Parks of which there are three that are essential visits. However, even those are not straighforward - for example, I don't remember paying to anchor at Skradin for the Krka Falls NP and at Mljet NP last year the officials pulled alongside and asked whether we intended to go ashore to visit the Park, which we did, so they said that anchoring was included in the NP entrance fees and didn't charge us anything. However, we are always friendly and tell officials that their country is beatiful, which it is, so they are always friendly in return. In my experience you reap what you sow.

I would recommend a visit to Trogir where there is a marina, a town quay, and an anchorage just to the West of the town canal. We nearly always anchor to the West as the town quay is often full and the marina is expensive (I tried it once!) and rather tight manouvering. I would guess that we have anchored 5 or 6 times over the last 6 years and been charged the £20 on about half the occasions. The other times no-one showed up! You can anchor a half mile further West or, I believe, go East of the road bridge and escape the charges completely. The officals are friendly so I usually offer them a beer or a coke. A couple of years ago at Trogir they asked what depth I had under the keel and I said half a metre. They told me that a spring tide with half metre fall was due the next day so if we wanted an early start we might find ourselves stuck in the mud. I moved the boat a 100m or so until I had a metre clear.

There is a list of payment anchorages issues by the Croatian authorities. I think there is a link to it on Jim B's website.

The only place I have heard about where there are unpleasant scammers at work is in one of the anchorages in Cavtat just South of Dubrovnik although I've never been. I guess that they see new arrivals entering Croatia as a "soft" target but they might have been closed down.

The old fee based on the number of crew has been replaced by the new Sojourn tax based on LOA as above.

Although the annual fee is still called a vignette there is now nothing to stick on the boat window. You just have to keep the stamped paper on the boat at all times.

Richard