Credit Cards and Pin Numbers

[TheBoatman]

I definately don't have the knowledge about how these new chip and pin number credit cards work, but I do have a question?
If banks/card companies etc are placing so much faith in these new chip & pin cards What happens if some computor geek finds my lost card and decides for a bit of fun to try and "read" it? If he is sucessful and starts to use my details how the hell would I ever persuade my bank that I wasn't using the card.
To my way of thinking everytime technology goes forward there is always someone able to get round it.
So whats different about this new chip & pin? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Otto]

it's an encryption thing.
smart cards are surprisingly secure.

 

[JKay]

and condoms are 100% sucksesfull
regards Joe /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Steve Clayton]

What is different about chip and pin???

The responsibility for paying out in the event of fraudulent activity no longer rests with the card supplier!

Previously the onus was on the shopkeeper and the card supplier to validate the card holders signature as valid, etc.

In the banks view now: as it is only you who knows the pin number then any fraudulent use of the card and using the pin MUST be due to your disclosing it and so you now have to cover the cost of fraudulent use.

It's a b*gger, isn't it?

 

[Woodentop]

Don´t Worry and Look Up....

You are of course being filmed while you use the card.
The cash machine knows who used the card because their smiling face was captured.

At the supermarket you will be watched by the cameras above while you enter your PIN (- so they can now find out your number.)

Don´t worry - your every move is watched and it will be easy to prove it wasn´t you who used the card.

It is all for your good of course.

 

[StephenSails]

Hmmmm, are they? My chip fell out of my card and I now have a hole in the card where it used to be. I have since tested another card and it poped out very easily as well. Its just a case of someone obtaining my pin which is the dificult bit.

 

[AlexL]

Like you say its not so much fraud prevention, but fraud liability limitation, by moving the liability to the customer /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

However the PIN is encrypted, and in fact is not even on the card so nobody can get the pin off the card even if they are a super nerd. AFIAK the pin is on a secure server at the card data service supplier. You type a pin, it is encrypted, sent over the wire to the server which compares it with its stored value and sends back a yay or nay message, so the pin itself never leaves the secure server and is never transmitted in clear over the link.
Bottom line though is that if someone uses your card then it is likely you will be liable. However its probably easier for the serious frauster to do some ID theft and just get a bunch of new cards in your name! You can keep an eye on this by checking your credit rating on a regular basis.

 

[Sybarite]

Can't comment on the technology but we have been using them for years in France and there aren't many horror tales. The fraud rate is also much lower.

John.

 

[TheBoatman]

How do I check my credit rating?

 

[silvertop]

was in france last year and there c&p doesnt recognize ours so still have to sign the chitty. OK in cash machines.

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Stemar]

AFAIK, the pin is stored on a computer as the result of a mathematical calculation called a hash function. In theory, no 2 pins will give the same answer, and it's as near impossible as dammit to work the calculation backwards. It's pretty secure.

The problem comes when villains fit card readers to cash machines and cameras to read the pin. I'm not sure that it works with the chip, but the last time the machine didn't like the chip, the guy just swiped it!

As far as the credit rating is concerned, there are a number of companies that keep databases of peoples' financial actions. You can get a copy of yours for about a tenner. I got mine once. It listed every time I'd been a day late with my card payment in the last five years, as well as detail of everyone who lived - or used to live at my address. Big Brother IS watching you!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The moral is pay cash! But the buggers'll still kow when and where you drew it out and how much

/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[wildcard]

glad someone else had trouble in France thought it was me my cards just dont work in france ,But OK in cash machine

 

[AlexL]

try

www.experian.co.uk

www.creditexpert.co.uk

www.equifax.co.uk

 

[Guest]

The stupid thing is .... I phoned the bank to say that I had lost my pin ... so they sent me another one. OK ... no prob. BUt during the conversation - I asked what is the point - a number is only a number and does not guarantee you are who you say you are .... also that having so many cards - I cannot remember them all.
Banks reply ..... straight up - honest !! Don't worry sir, many people are complaining about it and with so many lost pin's, so many not using when they usre the card's - that the sytem is delayed again till near end of year 2005 .... plus of course the installation of the system across country has been slower ... Don't worry sir - you can sign your receipt for quite a while still .....

So much for the TV ads and costs etc.

 

[rhinorhino]

Repeated credit checks are one of the signs of fraud. Repeated checks on the state of your credit history will soon ensure you will start to be refused credit.

 

[benjenbav]

Maybe super nerds can't get the pin but with some trad crim skills its not going to be too difficult. Watch the numbers being entered then dip the punter's pocket. Or webcam over ATM.

 

[Steve Clayton]

Don't know if it's true but I've heard that it's possible to get heat reading glasses (spectacles). When looking at a keypad very quickly after key entry then it's possible to see which keys have been pressed for entering the pin.

 

[BlueMan]

Worry about the fact that all you need is a dodgy retailer with a dodgy terminal that skims your pin number and a light fingered accomplice who pick pockets your card. Then off they go spending YOUR money. Of course, the bank then says it must have been you because they had the card and the pin. Just be aware, none of this is for our benefit! It is all to enable the banks to shift the liability for fraud to someone else. Do Bliar and crew care? Do they hell !!!

 

[BrendanS]

Very politely, but rabbit droppings. To see heat on a bit of rubberish plastic, after only less than a second of contact, you'd need amplification of IR part of spectrum. No glasses are going to do this, unless they have camera built in, and then dubious. Even if you managed to get an imprint of which keys have been pressed (very highly dubious) you'd still need to know in which order they'd been pressed. Much easier to position a normal camera to show which keys pressed.

 

[dedwards]

The French are starting to catch on to us switching to chip and pin as on a couple of occasions the other week we saw their surprise (and condescending look of relief) when their machine politely tells them to use the chip instead. Still, most french outlets expect to swipe our cards.
As far as the system is concerned i'd rather risk somebody guessing my secret(ish) PIN than copying my plainly obvious signature.