Craftsman engines - CM2.16 in particular

[JumbleDuck]

I may have the opportunity to spend a wee bit of money on the boat this year, and that might involve adding a bit more grunt than I get from my sort-of-trusty 1GM10.

The Craftsman CM2.16 (Mitsubishi based) looks interesting, at £3k-ish. Has anyone any useful experiences of (a) Craftsman engines (b) that particular one or (c) that particular one as a replacement for a 1GM10?

 

[rob2]

No, none at all. I have an earlier Mitsubishi based engine from Sole (Mini-14) which has been very reliable and thrifty. The Craftsman website does show a nice array of sensibly engineered parts and supporting drawings and manuals. Some of the marinising details appeal, they seem to have crafted all the marinising parts to make a smooth outline, whereas most just add a lump because it's needed. Of course, the base engine is a current production industrial engine which nowadays means it is oversquare - not such a condemnation now as it once was as engines are far more robust at higher revs than in my boyhood. I always believed that British motorbikes leaked oil so as to encourage you to stop thrashing them occasionally and wipe them clean. Whereas a Velocette left an oil trail which just went to show it hadn't run out of oil yet...

Point is, it is a nice looking conversion of a reliable base engine so will be as good as any other! A twin isn't the smoothest of engines, but will be quieter and vibrate far less than any single - it won't do that dance the 1GM is famous for! Just check the rotation, most are opposite to Yanmars so will probably involve a new prop.

Rob.

 

[Tranona]

From memory it is quite a bit larger physically than the 1GM and the most obvious replacement the Beta/Nanni 10/14 The extra length and width plus the wider footprint for the mounts would mean it is not a direct replacement. As you know I did all this research when I replaced my 1GM and the Nanni 14 is far and away the best and easiest replacement. Not that there is anything wrong with the Mitsubishi engine as a base.

 

[Steve_N]

Of course, the base engine is a current production industrial engine which nowadays means it is oversquare

They're not all oversquare; the Kubota-based Beta that I'm installing is 83mm x 92.4mm

 

[Tranona]

They're not all oversquare; the Kubota-based Beta that I'm installing is 83mm x 92.4mm

The Mitsubishi in question is at 76*70 - but it is a non issue. It peaks at 3000 rpm, lower than the Yanmar but the same as the Beta 10.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Point is, it is a nice looking conversion of a reliable base engine so will be as good as any other! A twin isn't the smoothest of engines, but will be quieter and vibrate far less than any single - it won't do that dance the 1GM is famous for! Just check the rotation, most are opposite to Yanmars so will probably involve a new prop.

Thanks. If I do get a new engine a feathering prop will have to be in the budget, I think, so I can deal with rotation issues.

From memory it is quite a bit larger physically than the 1GM and the most obvious replacement the Beta/Nanni 10/14 The extra length and width plus the wider footprint for the mounts would mean it is not a direct replacement. As you know I did all this research when I replaced my 1GM and the Nanni 14 is far and away the best and easiest replacement. Not that there is anything wrong with the Mitsubishi engine as a base.

The size is a bit of a concern. The Craftsman mounts are about 20mm further apart than the 1GM10 ones, whereas the Nanni are precisely the same width (410mm) so a potential faff with the bearers could be avoided. I'd like to investigate Vetus as well, whose smallest engine (same base as the Nanni?) also has mounts 410mm apart.

However, the Craftsman does look nice, so any further views on that, and particularly real experiences, would be useful.

 

[Crowblack]

Think one of my queries would be could I get to the oil and fuel filters quickly and easily with the engine fitted.

It looks like they are both down the side and if it's a tight fit might be difficult, particularly at sea.

Also can't see the impeller housing - should really be at the front so it's easy to get to.

All three on the Beta are to the front of the engine.

Aahhh had another at the engine looks like the seawater inlet is down the side too.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Think one of my queries would be could I get to the oil and fuel filters quickly and easily with the engine fitted.

It looks like they are both down the side and if it's a tight fit might be difficult, particularly at sea.

Also can't see the impeller housing - should really be at the front so it's easy to get to.

All three on the Beta are to the front of the engine.

Aahhh had another at the engine looks like the seawater inlet is down the side too.

Good points. I shall investigate them. Space is pretty tight and access over the 1GM10 is appalling - I had to take the head off to retrieve a spanner I dropped there (I was putting the head on at the time, so it wasn't too much work. I plan to move the seawater inlet fitting if I do this - the original one is crazily positions where even I - 6'4" and arms to match - can only just reach it.

Beta is not on my putative shortlist, for various reasons, so at the moment it's Craftsman vs Nanni vs Vetus vs Marine Power maybe. Anyone else I should be looking at?

 

[doug748]

"Beta is not on my putative shortlist, for various reasons, so at the moment it's Craftsman vs Nanni vs Vetus vs Marine Power maybe. Anyone else I should be looking at? "


You seem to have all the bases covered.

I did look at the Marine Power prices and, in the smaller sizes, it seemed to me there was very little incentive to take a punt. There may be a greater price advantage with the larger engines.

 

[PetiteFleur]

Access to the filters and seawater pump were my priority when re-engining and I went for a Beta 25, and they made wider monts to suit my bearers.

Think one of my queries would be could I get to the oil and fuel filters quickly and easily with the engine fitted.

It looks like they are both down the side and if it's a tight fit might be difficult, particularly at sea.

Also can't see the impeller housing - should really be at the front so it's easy to get to.

All three on the Beta are to the front of the engine.

Aahhh had another at the engine looks like the seawater inlet is down the side too.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks. If I do get a new engine a feathering prop will have to be in the budget, I think, so I can deal with rotation issues.



The size is a bit of a concern. The Craftsman mounts are about 20mm further apart than the 1GM10 ones, whereas the Nanni are precisely the same width (410mm) so a potential faff with the bearers could be avoided. I'd like to investigate Vetus as well, whose smallest engine (same base as the Nanni?) also has mounts 410mm apart.

However, the Craftsman does look nice, so any further views on that, and particularly real experiences, would be useful.

The vetus is also a Mitsubishi and its mount centres are 430. Overall width is 495, 60mm greater than the Nanni. Length is 630, which is 50mm greater than Nanni. If you are tight for room with a 1GM (as most installations are) then it is only the Nanni or the Beta that will fit. As I said, I went into this in great detail when I changed and rejected all the others and since then I think the Mitsubishi based engines have got physically bigger in width.

Don't worry about access for service. All the main points, including the oil extraction pump are on the front of the engine.

Not sure Craftsman (which is a Dutch mariniser) has well established representation in the UK.

Bite the bullet and do it. You will get enough for your 1GM to buy a Featherstream prop.

 

[reeac]

I read an implication that "over square" is bad at high revs. whereas I always thought that it was the opposite ...over square means reduced piston speed and lower reciprocating loads on bearings etc. I understood that the downside was a greater sensitivity to ring and bore wear due to a larger piston perimeter and hence more scope for leakage and blow by.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The vetus is also a Mitsubishi and its mount centres are 430. Overall width is 495, 60mm greater than the Nanni. Length is 630, which is 50mm greater than Nanni. If you are tight for room with a 1GM (as most installations are) then it is only the Nanni or the Beta that will fit. As I said, I went into this in great detail when I changed and rejected all the others and since then I think the Mitsubishi based engines have got physically bigger in width.

Thanks. That extra 60mm might well be a problem, though with the exhaust down the middle rather than at the side (Craftsman) it might work out OK. The biggest issue for any re-engining (physical possibility aside) is access over the top, which is the only way I can get to the stuffing gland. Anything much higher than a 1GM10 would make it well-nigh impossible, and the extra length of two cylinders will need a bit of thinking about as well.

Don't worry about access for service. All the main points, including the oil extraction pump are on the front of the engine.

Ta

Not sure Craftsman (which is a Dutch mariniser) has well established representation in the UK.

They seem to have a few dealers, mainly by canals. Nanni, on the other hand, have dealers at Largs and Ardfern, which would be nice.

Bite the bullet and do it. You will get enough for your 1GM to buy a Featherstream prop.

It depends on a few financial affairs organising themselves well, but if they do it would be quite nice to get this done. The 1GM10 pushed the boat along fine and has only done 1,200 hours (top end 150) but there have been times when a wee bit more grunt would have been useful.

 

[Tranona]

The height is the same roughly at the front but more bulk at the back because of the extra cylinder and the coolant header tank. However the latter is easily removed so there may still be clearance over the top. Minimise the need for access to the stern gland by fitting a Radice seal while you are at it. once a year to put a bit of grease into it.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The height is the same roughly at the front but more bulk at the back because of the extra cylinder and the coolant header tank. However the latter is easily removed so there may still be clearance over the top. Minimise the need for access to the stern gland by fitting a Radice seal while you are at it. once a year to put a bit of grease into it.

I probably wouldn't change the seal. The stuffing gland works well and barely leaks, and all the modern alternatives seem to be significantly more complicated, what with water supplies, burping and so on. I'd like something that will last at least twenty years with minimal maintenance ...

 

[Tranona]

I probably wouldn't change the seal. The stuffing gland works well and barely leaks, and all the modern alternatives seem to be significantly more complicated, what with water supplies, burping and so on. I'd like something that will last at least twenty years with minimal maintenance ...

With the Radice there are no problems with water supply, nor burping because it is vented. Difficult to see how you could call it more complicated than a stuffing box, given that it is one piece of material that never needs adjusting.

 

[macd]

With the Radice there are no problems with water supply, nor burping because it is vented. Difficult to see how you could call it more complicated than a stuffing box, given that it is one piece of material that never needs adjusting.

+1
It's also a doddle to lubricate...no trips to MacDonalds required

 

[JumbleDuck]

With the Radice there are no problems with water supply, nor burping because it is vented. Difficult to see how you could call it more complicated than a stuffing box, given that it is one piece of material that never needs adjusting.

OK, maybe I am getting confused. What's that spigot for? According to the Sillette catalogue (p14) it's Grease lubricated and Water fed.

 

[Latestarter1]

I may have the opportunity to spend a wee bit of money on the boat this year, and that might involve adding a bit more grunt than I get from my sort-of-trusty 1GM10.

The Craftsman CM2.16 (Mitsubishi based) looks interesting, at £3k-ish. Has anyone any useful experiences of (a) Craftsman engines (b) that particular one or (c) that particular one as a replacement for a 1GM10?

Pal of mine who is a marine distributor in Florida has taken Craftsman on, he has been Yanmar dealer for years however thinks they have lost the plot. Yanmar also wanted to punish my pal for selling parts into U.K so relationship is not good.

Having been to Holland and inspected the engines the quality of the marinisation appears excellent particularly the castings.

For buyers in the U.S the 6 year warranty is particularly attractive, and base engine is EPA Tier 3 making it automatically new RCD II compliant, non issue for re-power but means engine will not change for good few years.

 

[macd]

OK, maybe I am getting confused. What's that spigot for? According to the Sillette catalogue (p14) it's Grease lubricated and Water fed[/I

It could made water-fed, I suppose. But in most applications the barb is purely for attaching a length of hose, open at one end, to make it self-burping (which is what the bumf that comes with one describes IIRC). Since this means that water will inevitably bleed in if the contraption's in the water, I suppose that at a stretch you could call it 'water-fed'. The other hole, with the cap, is for injecting lube.