jimi
Well-known member
If I were to sail the world indefinitely would I cease to have a country of abode, and would I then cease to have various tax obligations
Country of Abode
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
StugeronSteve
New member
As you'd have b****r all income, unless you could find some DIY chain daft enough to sponsor you, tax would be the least of your worries.
Lizzie_B
New member
I knew a Bishop, who for a time was a refugee without citizenship of any country. His own country had stripped him of his citizenship and it took about three years before he was granted citizenship in the UK. When travelling and confronted with this question on immigration forms he used to put Citizen of Heaven. I'm sure with your kind, generous personality you would qualify with no problems Jimi!
Seriously, you would be classified as abiding in the country in which your vessel is registered.
Seriously, you would be classified as abiding in the country in which your vessel is registered.
Sybarite
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, you would be classified as abiding in the country in which your vessel is registered.
[/ QUOTE ]
Under EU rules you can register your boat in any country. A lot of French people have been re-registering their boats in Belgium.
Your tax status depends on where you are ordinarily resident and not on nationality. I believe that if you cruise permanently you would not be taxable if you spend less than 6 months in any country or less than 3 months on an on-going basis. One would need to inform one's country of residence that one is expatriating, settle any outstanding taxes and then simply not register anywhere else.
To justify your movements you would need to keep a detailed log and be able to justufy foreign visits with receipts for harbour dues etc.
John
Seriously, you would be classified as abiding in the country in which your vessel is registered.
[/ QUOTE ]
Under EU rules you can register your boat in any country. A lot of French people have been re-registering their boats in Belgium.
Your tax status depends on where you are ordinarily resident and not on nationality. I believe that if you cruise permanently you would not be taxable if you spend less than 6 months in any country or less than 3 months on an on-going basis. One would need to inform one's country of residence that one is expatriating, settle any outstanding taxes and then simply not register anywhere else.
To justify your movements you would need to keep a detailed log and be able to justufy foreign visits with receipts for harbour dues etc.
John
Sgeir
Well-known member
Luke 20:25
jimi
Well-known member
What about tax on income or capital gains in the UK if one is non resident .. does then become tax free?
Stingo
Well-known member
Jimi, since this comes from our drunken debate last night, let's be more specific.
What about tax on rental income (and no other income) or capital gains in the UK if one is non resident...
Other factors are that I have no permanent address that I can call "my home" in any country & I spend less than 6 months in any country while cruising.
What about tax on rental income (and no other income) or capital gains in the UK if one is non resident...
Other factors are that I have no permanent address that I can call "my home" in any country & I spend less than 6 months in any country while cruising.
Clive_Rigden
New member
How very true . . .
Lizzie_B
New member
Exactly. Abode is not the same as tax status or citizenship. If your permanent home is your vessel, then your country of abode is the registered country of your boat, as the vessel represents soveriegn territory of the country of registration. Tax liability is a whole other can of worms and varies from country to country and also depends on where your income derives from and and any taxable assets you may have in a variety of countries.
Also, EU citizens do not have an automatic right to register their vessel in any other EU country.It varies from country to country. To register in the UK they will usually have to fulfill certain residency or employment criteria. When I was in Spain during the summer I was told that the Spanish were intending to introduce a wealth tax on vessels of whatever nationality that remained in their waters for more than six months. There are all sorts of wrinkles and interpretations that governments can use to grab your money. I think in the USA all earnings in the US are subject to tax even if you are a foriegn national and ordinarily taxed somewhere else. What would best suit any individual situation would need thorough research and professional advice, but the likelihood is that you will end up paying some tax, somewhere to someone.
Also, EU citizens do not have an automatic right to register their vessel in any other EU country.It varies from country to country. To register in the UK they will usually have to fulfill certain residency or employment criteria. When I was in Spain during the summer I was told that the Spanish were intending to introduce a wealth tax on vessels of whatever nationality that remained in their waters for more than six months. There are all sorts of wrinkles and interpretations that governments can use to grab your money. I think in the USA all earnings in the US are subject to tax even if you are a foriegn national and ordinarily taxed somewhere else. What would best suit any individual situation would need thorough research and professional advice, but the likelihood is that you will end up paying some tax, somewhere to someone.
tcm
...
tax on rental income
i am pretty sure that some tax is payable in the uk even tho you are somehwre else - ask a london estate agent? I beleieev that they sneakily have to take the tax off before giving you the loot. But it might be only 20%. Then, you wd have to claim it back, perhaps.
i am pretty sure that some tax is payable in the uk even tho you are somehwre else - ask a london estate agent? I beleieev that they sneakily have to take the tax off before giving you the loot. But it might be only 20%. Then, you wd have to claim it back, perhaps.
kingcobra
New member
Depending on your level of income or investments it may be actually more attractive from a tax point of view to remain a UK taxpayer ie Uk resident for tax.
People forget that for people with small incomes and not too much capital that the UK is actually not too bad. Everyone has an annua tax exemption of nearly £5,000 per year ( tax free ) and then the rest is taxed from 10% upwards. Do not forget that you will probably require the services of the NHS at some time as well.
If you are clever you can avoid paying tax at all on investment income by keeping your capital in certain offshore type Bonds which effectively allow your capital to roll up gross. As long as you do not withdraw more than 5% of the original capital, you do not have to pay income tax at that time, however you do have to be careful with large withdrawals, however even this can be avoided with careful planning and a nomadic lifestyle.
I hope this is of help.
Kingcobra
People forget that for people with small incomes and not too much capital that the UK is actually not too bad. Everyone has an annua tax exemption of nearly £5,000 per year ( tax free ) and then the rest is taxed from 10% upwards. Do not forget that you will probably require the services of the NHS at some time as well.
If you are clever you can avoid paying tax at all on investment income by keeping your capital in certain offshore type Bonds which effectively allow your capital to roll up gross. As long as you do not withdraw more than 5% of the original capital, you do not have to pay income tax at that time, however you do have to be careful with large withdrawals, however even this can be avoided with careful planning and a nomadic lifestyle.
I hope this is of help.
Kingcobra
Seafort
New member
Re: tax on rental income
As far as I can make out you can become "Non-Resident". This will limit your tax liabilities on income earned outside the U.K. It's not the same as non-domiciled which is a whole other kettle of fish.....
Info' here .
Still looking into rental income in the U.K.
Would also seem that you just have to say to customs "Hi, I'm back" and you are.
Dave.
As far as I can make out you can become "Non-Resident". This will limit your tax liabilities on income earned outside the U.K. It's not the same as non-domiciled which is a whole other kettle of fish.....
Info' here .
Still looking into rental income in the U.K.
Would also seem that you just have to say to customs "Hi, I'm back" and you are.
Dave.
janeK
Member
Matthew 22.17
Birdseye
Well-known member
If you were asking the question and intending to take action based on the answers, then you would need proper professional advice. I cant give you that.
As I understand it, there are 2 issues - where you are domiciled affecting IHT for example, and where you are ordinarily resident. You cannot get rid of a UK domicile by being away from the UK. You have to adopt another domicile. Whats worse, if you subseqwently lose that new domicile you revert to the UK one. In other words, you have to have a domicile.
I doubt that meandering round the world will affect where you are ordinarily resident until you become ordinarily resident somewhere else. But even then, you are liable for UK tax on UK income AFAIK and can then simply set it off against the tax where you are resident under a double taxation treaty if applicable.
You might well ask " how would the IR know where I was if I just disappeared?" I dont know the answer, but I do know that if they find out you could be in serious trouble. And lots of banks in lots of jurisdictions now provide info to govt tax departments.- money laundering and all that.
Let me know if you find a good solution!
As I understand it, there are 2 issues - where you are domiciled affecting IHT for example, and where you are ordinarily resident. You cannot get rid of a UK domicile by being away from the UK. You have to adopt another domicile. Whats worse, if you subseqwently lose that new domicile you revert to the UK one. In other words, you have to have a domicile.
I doubt that meandering round the world will affect where you are ordinarily resident until you become ordinarily resident somewhere else. But even then, you are liable for UK tax on UK income AFAIK and can then simply set it off against the tax where you are resident under a double taxation treaty if applicable.
You might well ask " how would the IR know where I was if I just disappeared?" I dont know the answer, but I do know that if they find out you could be in serious trouble. And lots of banks in lots of jurisdictions now provide info to govt tax departments.- money laundering and all that.
Let me know if you find a good solution!
peterb
New member
[ QUOTE ]
If I were to sail the world indefinitely
[/ QUOTE ]
Would that make you the "Flying Scotsman"? (As with the Dutchman!)
If I were to sail the world indefinitely
[/ QUOTE ]
Would that make you the "Flying Scotsman"? (As with the Dutchman!)
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