Countess 33 alternatives and Colvic build quality

[SmileyGiley]

All,

Thanks for the earlier feedback, and here's some more questions.

First of all Colvic build quality. Replies to my last post had Colvic Countess build quality rated as very good in one reply, and also recounted problems of serious osmosis problems (yes, with the latter the boat was afloat year round) in another. Any comments? Colvic seem to have built a vast number of hulls, I'd have thought they'd have been pretty good at it.

The Countess hull I was looking at has lots of little angular pits in places - but to my unskilled eye this looks like a moulding issue rather than evidence of blisters.

The boat has been out of the water for several years now. Will this preclude hull moisture readings being useful, or will the osmotic pressure/capillary action have retained any liquid in any existing blisters?

Anybody have any hints about what problems to look for in a boat stored out of the water for several years. All(sic) I can think of are seized mechanicals, from engine to winches to loo pump, plus perished seals/diaphragms etc, water ingress along electricals and generally stuff that hasn't been picked up 'along the way'. Anecdotes more than welcome.

Any alternatives to the Countess 33? We're on a budget of "max" 30k, but then again it can be stretched if the right boat were available. The Countess we are looking at is in budget by dint of being rather tatty. The interior is quite solidly done, but rather dated and dowdy. It will need a degree of remedial work, but generally is functional. Still, if I can stretch our budget to a bigger boat at the cost of not having a brochure interior I'm more than happy. We go to sail, paddle on the beach, get sand in our undies and blue with cold, shiver and recuperate over cocoa or hot choccie, not sit around and admire a pristine saloon.

Cheers

SmileyG

 

[boatmike]

Colvic build was no better or worse than any others generally and is a pretty heavy basic layup anyway. Go by condition.

The "angular pits" are probably air bubbles in the gel coat and not a problem. Been there from day 1. If unsightly you can grind 'em out and fill 'em.

You can do a moisture test if you want but after this long out of the water there should not be much notable difference between topside and bottom readings. In any case if there are no blisters it ain't a problem unless exessive.

You are on the right track if laid up for a long time. Most problems are obvious mechanical ones. While out of the water check shaft and rudder bearings and check to see if shaft is bent and prop is true. Are all hull fittings sound?

As far as interior is concerned, inspect hull to bulkhead boundary angles thoroughly on any home build job. It may require removal of trim but is worth while. Also carefully inspect areas around chainplates and fittings for cracks etc. If all is well, the interior is something you can take pleasure in improving over time.

If all seems OK then get a professional survey done anyway. you will probably need it for insurance in any case.

 

[ex-Gladys]

As you can see from the sig I don't have a countess, but a (rare) Victor 35. The hull moulding quality is quite good for the period. However, Colvic only moulded the hulls and the fit out was done by loads of different yards and amateurs. Although Gladys was a professional fit out, there are loads of odds and ends that are eyebrow raising. For example, when the pushpit was fitted, they cut away part of the balsa sandwich and bolted the base to the outer skin only... We rectified that two winters ago and actually it was pretty easy. Have a poke around, look at the load bearing attachments and check that a basically good quality biuild hasn't been butchered.

 

[maxi]

I've saild thousands of miles in Colvic 33 sloop, the GRP work is usually very good and well over and above today's specifications.
If she's been out of the water for years she should be dry. Moisture readings are not a reliable guide to osmosis - just an indication of areas of variance which require closer inspection. If there are no bubbles there is probably no problem.
Fit-out standards will vary as almost all are home builds or contracted out to small boatbuilders.

Good cruising boat though.

 

[Jonny_H]

When our 37 was surveyed she came out with a good report. Hull readings etc all 'normal' - she had been laid up for a few months though.

I would go with the above comments - generally a heavy lay up done basically. Theres none of the 'above the waterline can be layed up a bit thinner to save weight and make her faster' that you get with new boats - its seems to have been more a case of 'if in doubt throw some more resin in there'. Which is great for loing distance sailing as you get a hardy boat - not so great for local cruising in light winds!

As noted in the other posts - fit out vary a lot - but if you are looking at an average fit out bear in mind you can always put new furniture etc in if you have the time / money / skill further down the line.

Jonny

 

[wotayottie]

There are huge numbers of past posts on the subject of osmosis including quite a lot of nonsense. There are far worse problems (like water into balsa sandwich decks) and quite often the cost of a yard osmosis job is much the same as a new engine. What I'm getting at is dont buy a boat you dont want with a bad engine because the one you do want has a touch of osmosis - its simply not the end of the world.

If this boat has been out of the water for some time and assuming there is no water inside the hull, get it checked for moisture. If it has osmosis, leaving it out of the water will not dry out the hull. Conversely, if the hull is still wet after its been out of the water for a year or two, then the boat has osmosis. This is likely the case anyway, as happens to the large majority of older boats. Not so much build quality but simply because the materials then available were far more prone to osmosis.

There are lots of potential expenses in a boat that has been out of commission. Engine, sea cocks, winches seized, electronics phut, sea toilet etc. Budget time and / or expense to re-commission. Dont get ionto a deal that says you have to sail away the day after purchase.

 

[Csail]

mine?

 

[catalac08]

Aware that generally colvic hull quality is thought to be good with fit out finish variable as most were amateur completed but a few years ago saw a 33 or 28 hull which had been fitted out very nicely by its owner over several years and then lost the port side twin keel on its mooring in Wales within a couple of weeks of being afloat. This was not storm damage as there was no bad weather (I was there on my boat at that time) the keel just folded under the boat on the mooring and fortunately being a 1/3rd tidal mooring the owners who were local had the opportunity to temporarily seal the hole with foam before the next tide, where the keel had been and perhaps on a falling tide there was not too much water damage inside.
The construction was an encapsulated ballast at the bottom of a
Saw the boat in its collapsed state and also later at Dickies Boatyard with the keel which had been retrieved and work started on the repair.

I do not recall whether the ballast was encapsulated or a bolt on ballast to a moulded keel stub. What I do recall was the totally appalling quality of moulding around the bilge keel stub root where the moulding had broken. There seemed only to be a couple of layers of GRP matting covered with gelcoat attaching the bilge keel stub to the hull and this was not fully wetted out in places.

Apologies if this disturbes happy colvic owners and I am sure this is a really unusual incident, truly a "friday afternoon boat".

I wonder if this sort of construction fault would be picked up by a surveyor when doing a hammer test on a hull?

 

[SmileyGiley]

Catalac08...

Was that over in Traeth Coch? Heard the same tale from a certain Mr B.... a few weeks ago whilst he was shifting his moorings around in the 'pool' & I was letting my 18month have her first splash in the puddles.

Sad thing was, when I was a sproggie 38 years ago, the same Mr B was fiddling with his moorings whilst I got my first splash in the pool. Some things change, some stay the same... tho he's a little older now.

Cheers

SmileyG

 

[catalac08]

hi smileygiley

yes it was the boat at Traeth Coch (Red Wharfe Bay for some) - i think the boat belonged to the Traeth coch Sailing Club commodore or some other prominent club member there.

without knowing the history of the boat hull it is hard to come to any firm conclusion about this i.e was the hull moulded by Colvic or was it moulded by an rank amateur using a colvic mould, could it have been a fin keel hull badly converted to twin keels, was the hull not completed by Colvic/Cobramould or damaged at some stage and badly repaired?

When we moored at Traeth Coch between 1992-1996 the mooring were heaving with boats right out past where the hotel used to be before the flats were built, last time i went there there were very few boats outside the protection of the point of land near the pub..but the tide does run very quickly out there and the moorings were often going walkabout.
Would be interesting to know whether the insurance company paid out on that repair which looked a big job

Would not put me off buying a Colvic but would remind me not to make assumptions about build quality - I suppose this is an argument for having a second hand boat which will have been thouroughly tested if sailed enough over a period of years

 

[Graham_Wright]

If you look on the Colvic owners website, you will find something similar that may tickle your fancy. Mind you, she is lying in the Bahamas but I wouldn't mind sailing her back for you (all expenses paid naturally!). /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[freebird1]

[ QUOTE ]
...
I wonder if this sort of construction fault would be picked up by a surveyor when doing a hammer test on a hull?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.. I had two surveyors look at my Westerly Konsort. They both failed to identify the level of the problem in one of my keel / hull mouldings, which failed three weeks after I bought the boat. Both had recommended getting a shipwright to inspect it further with the keel off. He did. I'm now pursuing him....Insurance company won't touch it. £5k later boat is fixed and afloat again.

 

[freebird1]

I should have added that my dad has had a Colvic 26 sailer for over 17 years. The hull lay up is far better than anything Westerly ever produced.