Cost of marine diesels

Ubergeekian

Ubergeekian

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Me: Castle Douglas, SW Scotland. Boats: Kirkcudbri
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If I go to Reliant I can buy a brand new engine from them. It will be an 850cc four stroke four cylinder petrol engine, producing 40bhp and with all ancilliaries (starter, alternator, carb and so on) it will cost me less than fifteen hunded quid (I'm extrapolating - they were just under a grand five years ago.)

Or I can go to Yanmar and buy a 319cc diesel, producing 9 horsepower ... for around twice as much.

How on earth to they manage to make a much simpler engine so much more expensive?
 
Ubergeekian said:
If I go to Reliant I can buy a brand new engine from them. It will be an 850cc four stroke four cylinder petrol engine, producing 40bhp and with all ancilliaries (starter, alternator, carb and so on) it will cost me less than fifteen hunded quid (I'm extrapolating - they were just under a grand five years ago.)

Or I can go to Yanmar and buy a 319cc diesel, producing 9 horsepower ... for around twice as much.

How on earth to they manage to make a much simpler engine so much more expensive?
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Because the reliant engine is a rehash of the old austin 7 engine, its petrol, old technology and its not marinised, whereas the yanmar is a modern diesel and marinised, but as we all know the real reason why yanmar and their ilk charge twice as much for it is because they can get away with it.
 
Worldwide annual market for small petrol engines using standard fresh water cooling? Must be hundreds of thousands.
Worldwide annual market for small marinised diesel engines? Thousands?

Count ourselves lucky its not 10 times as much for a diesel marine engine!
 
Now that diesel is almost as expensive as petrol I've wondered why we are not seeing small modern efficient reliable petrol engines in boats now. Apart from having to store petrol which can't be much of a problem as plenty power boats have it we would get a much quieter, lighter,smoother and less smelly engine.
They wouldn't need serviced as often and gallons per hour is almost the same as diesel.
 
nimbusgb said:
Worldwide annual market for small petrol engines using standard fresh water cooling? Must be hundreds of thousands.
Worldwide annual market for small marinised diesel engines? Thousands?
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That's why I chose Reliant as a comparator, though - if they make a few hundred engines a year now I'd be surprised.[/QUOTE]

Spyro said:
Now that diesel is almost as expensive as petrol I've wondered why we are not seeing small modern efficient reliable petrol engines in boats now.
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That's what I've been thinking. The Reliant engine would fit into the space in Jumblie just fine and I have a couple of spare ones lying around. A bit of light marinisation and bingo. Mind you, 40hp would be far too much.
 
Spyro said:
Now that diesel is almost as expensive as petrol I've wondered why we are not seeing small modern efficient reliable petrol engines in boats now. Apart from having to store petrol which can't be much of a problem as plenty power boats have it we would get a much quieter, lighter,smoother and less smelly engine.
They wouldn't need serviced as often and gallons per hour is almost the same as diesel.
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Diesel is more expensive than petrol, in UK anyway!
Couldnt believe the prices! 1.23 pounds a litre in UK, 96 pence in Spain!
 
bazobeleza said:
Because the reliant engine is a rehash of the old austin 7 engine, its petrol, old technology and its not marinised, whereas the yanmar is a modern diesel and marinised
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The only thing a Reliant engine has in common with an Austin 7 engine is the stroke. It's a lovely little all-aluminium, wet linered thing which revs like a banshee and can be tuned to 100+ hp. How modern is the 25 year old Yanmar next to me as I type this?
 
Spyro said:
Now that diesel is almost as expensive as petrol I've wondered why we are not seeing small modern efficient reliable petrol engines in boats now. Apart from having to store petrol which can't be much of a problem as plenty power boats have it we would get a much quieter, lighter,smoother and less smelly engine.
They wouldn't need serviced as often and gallons per hour is almost the same as diesel.
Click to expand...

And why should you Not have a petrol engine:

1. Explosion risk
2. Deisel on the water is around 85p per Ltr (last w/e Premier Gosport), and petrol is something like £1.30 per ltr.
3. Where did you get your economy figures from - not sure that you are right on this.
4. A clean diesel is not smelly at all.

I would rather not moor agains a Petrol engined boat.... (unless I know that he owner is careful.....) (Gas - lets just forget about that one!)
 
Chris_Robb said:
And why should you Not have a petrol engine:

1. Explosion risk
2. Deisel on the water is around 85p per Ltr (last w/e Premier Gosport), and petrol is something like £1.30 per ltr.
3. Where did you get your economy figures from - not sure that you are right on this.
4. A clean diesel is not smelly at all.

I would rather not moor agains a Petrol engined boat.... (unless I know that he owner is careful.....) (Gas - lets just forget about that one!)
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Would be worse if they smoked as well, you would be a nervous wreck before you left the berth...
 
Having been in a sinking yacht fitted with a Reliant, I cannot recommend the experience to the house.

Guess what happens when the water is splashing around the Hi tension electrics?

Besides, a diesel engine produces prodigious amounts of torque at low revs, whereas yer average petrol engine has a lightish flywheel required horsepower to even up the lack of torque. Which is why they are fitted to Sportsboats, who use high revs to make it all work very fast.

Also, the fuel economy is not matched petrol to diesel. Diesel economy is far more frugal.
Also, consider that in a carburretted petrol engine the fuel/air mixture is potentially available to your engine space,but a diesel squirts it into the cylinder....... not to mention that you can throw lighted fag butts into a bucket of diesel.

If you want to, you can still buy a 3 litre Ford Essex V6 engine producing 100 horsepower for the same money as a Reliant. Made in South Africa these days for industrial engine use.

All in all, I cannot recommend the use of a 4 cylinder petrol engine in a boat, although I have to admit racing a 3 cylinder 2 stroke outboard boat in the 60/70's.
 
If you can get it - charge it!

Ubergeekian said:
How on earth to they manage to make a much simpler engine so much more expensive?
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Any business that does not charge "what the market will bear" is robbing itself.

I'd be surprised if there are any significant businesses operating nowadays that still determine their prices on a cost plus percentage basis.
 
parsifal said:
I'd be surprised if there are any significant businesses operating nowadays that still determine their prices on a cost plus percentage basis.
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Millions of (arguably commodity type) businesses selling prices are fixed (more or less), and they succeed by controlling their costs. BA for example.

Thread drift. Sorry.
 
Regarding price of diesel marinised engines, I have an 'associate' who I won't name drop, who has been involved in selling main manufacturer engines for marine purposes. He dealt with the costings and removing the complex unnecessary road components and speccing them for the Marine market.

The mark-up was truely astonishing. Quite literally pulling a number out of the air.
 
Fire99 said:
Regarding price of diesel marinised engines, I have an 'associate' who I won't name drop, who has been involved in selling main manufacturer engines for marine purposes. He dealt with the costings and removing the complex unnecessary road components and speccing them for the Marine market.

The mark-up was truely astonishing. Quite literally pulling a number out of the air.
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fred drift but if you want to talk mark-up. Spectacle frames = 50 to 100 times and that's just from wholesaler to retailer! lenses 10 to 50 times.

I have a friend who will make me one pair a year at cost. My last designer framed, zeiss varifocal lensed set cost me ......................... £30. Retail price quoted by a high street company was over £350.
 
Why wouldn't I have a petrol engine?

Aside from the fumes & fire risk, - how about spark plugs, HT leads, distributor (even if solid state) and all the ECU's that are tacked onto modern petrol engines to make them "eco-friendly"! A damp saltwater environment is about the worst place you can put a modern petrol engine.
 
cost of marine engines

I agree that if you pay list price for a marine diesel you may well feel seen off however before all the dealers jump down my throat you do get something for your money. Not only do you get the base engine but a full marinising package including choice of gearbox, mounts, controls, manual, dealer network (world wide?), warranty and spares availability. As I found you can significantly reduce the cost by going to an engineering company that take base engines and put a package together for you. I did this and got a 'Volvo' (Perkins base engine) D1-13 at about half RRP. I did have to do some research for manuals, it's not all volvo parts (so you need to understand how the engine has been pulled together to get spares), and the warranty is from a small firm not a big manufacturer. I am very happy with what I got for my money and I can afford to buy a pile of spares with the money I saved. So, as they say, you pay your money and takes your choice!

Yoda
 
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